Incendiary

Ah, understood. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with the GS. My Lexus friends were very hopeful...

encore888

Well if you read the C&D review, which was incredibly brief compared to past ones (a sad commentary on the decline of the journalism, rise of advertising pages instead etc), they basically said the LS is "the most indulgent car in the segment" and blamed "obsession with dampening noise" for lesser performance numbers. It was hardly a clear distinction between the 5 vehicles on what matters most to luxury flagship buyers, namely: luxury. Now performance was where they made a separation. But overall they said, as you note, that you couldn't go wrong with any of the 5 vehicles.

Now C&D's preferences aside, I think with the numbers you can see that the LS target market remains as strong as ever. It retains market leadership, this month showing that in particular--and showing how reality stacks up against some performance-biased reviews.

I happen to believe that the strongest indicator is the market and the buyers, and IMO these preliminary results show that the LS and S-class are the leaders in the market. At this point, factoring in price, it may make the S-class and LS pretty close to each other. The market is suggesting that these 2 top vehicles are doing quite well. Now I think that some will continue to say that the S-class is worth more as it costs more, and I think it is partially justified in saying that. But I also think that part of the added cost and a good portion of the continued sales is on the badge cachet of the 3-pointed star. There are quite a few people who continue to buy Benz no matter what, and couple that with first-year new S-class and it contributes to overall success.

In my view the LS will have to continue fighting from the value angle and quality/indulgent comfort advantages. But noting that the LS as % of total Lexus sales is near the GS % of sales despite its higher cost shows that the LS, even in the LS 430-dominated transition year, continues to be a major success story for the Lexus brand. And overall, LS sales are #1 in the segment, aside from the fleet-sales dominated American sedans. Bottom line is that more individual flagship sedan buyers are purchasing the LS over any other competitor, right now based on the data.

RON430

Funny thing is, as Doug can attest, I am shopping in this segment and have driven all of the cars in the comparo. I have lots of problems with the mags but the rankings are about the way I rank them. But on top of what else you mention about the comparo, C&D had this totally ludicrous notion to keep sticking into the review what it was like to own them and be driven in them rather than drive them and what your chaffeur would be enjoying (or not). If I want to get a review of riding in cars, I'll get it off the internet. I might have swapped the Audi for the S class but that is a tough one. Now I would like to tell you to disregard most of that. This thread is very interesting every month and I think we should stick to trying to look at what the numbers are telling us, not what we make up in our tiny minds or get into the op-ed pieces that make up most of the threads below. I'll wait and see what the LS numbers look like a year from now. That is going to be the test. However, all in all, I would say that Lexus has the LS on the priority list to spend some effort on, unlike the GS. But the car, especially at the price that Lexus has set for it, is going to be in for a bit tougher time IMO.

Gojirra99

Thanks incendiary, but how about some numbers for the entire 2006 ?

encore888

Agreed, we'll see what the numbers look like as the months go by. As for the editorializing or interpretation, let's just say it's all in good fun... And hey I didn't start it, this goes on each month. By my ranking, the LS is at the top along with the S-class, then the Audi, XJ, and 7. When I drive a flagship sedan, my primary concern is how comfortable the car is inside--from the driver and passenger POVs. If I want a sports car, I'll get one as my other car.

And, looking at the trends since the LS debuted in 1989, thru the LS 430, I doubt Lexus is losing much sleep over the competition (but should remain watchful and kaizen continuously). The LS should comfortably stay at the top of the pack in sales, just like it did this month and in previous years.

biker

TSX saves Acura again. They have to get off the SUV bandwagon - way too much reliance on their SUVs. Once the novelty of the RDX and MDX wears off, they're in trouble.

RON430

Couldn't agree more. I think we could have a great discussion around this, seems like the better discussions for me lately are all pm. But it is nice to have a thread to view and just try ti ascertain what the numbers are telling us without bringing too much he said, she said into it. And of course, everyone's desires change with time. There is nothing that says the sports car you want today is the comfo sedan you will crave in a few years, or vice versa. One opinion comment, I couldn't agree more with your comment about MBZ pricing counting on the value added from their three pointed star. I can't deny it by then again, I don't want to consciously think about paying it either.

encore888

Well said, RON430. Anyhow, back to the regularly scheduled thread...

The TL and TSX have been a successful combo for Acura, it seems. TL the longtime champ but now recently (finally) dethroned by the ES. 3-series sales continue to be strong, although it's nice to see the ES/IS combo and the TL/TSX combo take the #1 and #3 spots respectively.

Of course, IIRC the RX is the other bread and butter success for Lexus...maybe a JX to come...

Gojirra99

Here are the monthly sales #'s of the LS as far as I can look back from the Toyota site. The last 2 months in 2006 are the best for the LS, & they are the first 2 full months of sales for the LS460, which are significantly more expensive than the previous LS430.

2006 Jan. to Dec.
1190
1015
1341
1071
1085
1014
971
1386
898
2097
3613
3865

2005 Jan. to Dec.
2117
2028
2537
2398
2251
2290
2350
2548
1897
1637
1670
2320

2004 Jan. to Dec.
2510
2357
3010
2706
2763
2486
2671
2527
2448
2805
2529
3460

2003 Jan. to Dec. (2004 Model Year is the facelifted LS430 introduced the last quarter of 2003)

1535
1451
1517
1652
1848
1589
1842
2410
1739
2751
2474
3087

2002 Jan. to Dec.
1490
2002
2548
2286
2451
2272
1997
2695
2163
2154
2027
2171

2001 December - 2365,
2001 Jan. to Dec. TOTAL - 31,110

.

doug_999

However, (and not trying to take anything away from the LS460), Lexus does not break down the numbers between the 430 and 460 and I'm sure that the 430 inventory is not completely gone yet....

Gojirra99

They only sold 898 LS430 in September when no LS460 is available yet & I think they are already clearing the remaining inventory out that month, so I don't think LS430's sold the last 2 months is significant (if at all, it's all speculation, I would say a few dozen of the old model a month at most). I think they still list as LS430/LS460 is because the YTD figures consist of both old & new models, not because any significant #'s of the LS430 are sold in the last 2 months. The still haven't update the GS300 to GS350 in their table BTW.

Incendiary

Sorry, I only do by month.

marshmallo

This thread is borderline ridiculous. People come in here to say
Lexus is failing EVERY month yet they are #1 in sales for yet another
year. The most expensive LS yet has sold 3865 units in December.

Odd how nobody is mentioning the real failures at this point :

-The Big Three, which are imploding and giving up market share
to everybody else.

-Jaguar - Time to kill this cat.

-Isuzu, Saab, Mitsubishi. I wonder how these manufacturers even
stay in business in the states

doug_999

Well honestly I don't think anyone says Lexus is failing. There are those here that think Lexus rules the world, others who are quick to point out the flaws in their logic, and finally lots of people who just like to talk cars.

Oh and as pointed out, the most expensive LS (yet) did not sell 3865 units in December - the prior model and the new combined combined to make that #

encore888

Well if the previous month had 898 LS 430s sold in September in total, subtracting that gives around 3,000 LS 460s sold (out of 3865) which is still a very impressive number!