mavericck

All I know is that I check my oil monthly and on top of that the computers in my Porsche and Audi's (not sure about our LS, going to have to ask the wife) tell me when I need change my oil or stop by the dealer for regular service. Therefore, I never experience the infamous "idiot lights". The same goes for my grocery beater.

ES350Bob

If you had this in the car you'd know it if you have owned the car prior to it happening.

The idle gets rougher for no reason and has an uneven sound to it, there is a vibration that is present that was otherwise not and there is, in my case, smoke present in the exhaust, not a blue or white smoke, but more of a light soot-like smoke that you had not had before. The, in my case, light soot-like smoke you will certainly notice having backed out of a spot you were in.

Threxx

My Audi got its first service at 5200 miles per the onboard computer which of course measures driving conditions, throttle, RPM, trip distance, etc, and thus is well aware that I do mostly city driving and I'm a relatively aggressive driver in my Audi... at least in terms of acceleration.

My second interval, per the onboard computer, came at 15,800 miles. 10,600 miles later. The oil was in there the entire time. *gasp* Audi's engineers must have some diabolical plan to recommend harmful oil change intervals to me via my factory manual and onboard computer so that I will need an engine rebuild at 100k miles and hopefully will get it done at the dealer so they'll make a killing off of me. Nevermind the fact that they'd be alienating me as a future customer if that happened.
It just doesn't make sense that the engineers would purposely recommend an interval several times longer than is actually advisable... especially considering most other maintenance intervals in my manual are, if anything, excessive (change cabin air filter at 15k miles? right...)
So the only logical explanation left is that mmarshall is smarter than all of the engineering brainpowered combined at Audi, and, well come to think of it I think almost every single car company in existance today, as I can't recall the last time I've seen a 3000 mile interval recommended in a factory manual.
Come to think of it the only time I DO see a 3000 mile interval recommended... it's being recommended by the places that stand to profit from increased intervals - the places that sell oil and/or sell oil changes.

Who would'a'thunk it?

mavericck

Your supposedly able to go 15k between service intervals on your A4 BTW.

Threxx

True... I think the first interval is at 5k miles for obvious reasons, then from there is goes 15k, 30k, 45k, etc

mavericck

Same goes for our A6 (has about 20k miles on it), so far the engine and the car as a whole has been flawless and it has spent most of its' time in really icy conditions.

mjr24

I heard from some very knowledgable Benz people to not wait that long to change oil...meaning the recommended 10-15k. There were alot of problems with the gaskets drying up (this is on newer ones) because quite simply it needs to be changed for.

That being said...I put 65k miles on my CL and only maybe changed oil 2-3 times....stupid me, I know.....but the car ran perfect always.

mmarshall

In general, the more you can keep moving, at steady speeds, at moderate temperatures, the longer you can run the oil and filter......up to a point.

mmarshall

More than just profit is involved. It costs a shop bucks.....sometimes big bucks......to dispose of used oil and filters per State and EPA regulations. The more oil they change, the more they have to buy in bulk, and the higher their disposal costs will be. Sometimes used engine oil can be converted to heating oil...but it still costs a lot to do so...it has to be cleaned and re-refined.

Toyota itself recommends 3750 miles for "severe" service...which incluses much of the typical stop-and-go driving we do in urban and suburban areas.

Threxx

OK so... what, you're telling me Jiffy Lube is actually a charity, and the more volume they get the less money they make (or the more they give away?).

I don't really see how your response applies to what I've said.

If the manual recommends 3750 miles for severe service, and your driving matches severe service, then great, I don't disagree - go for it.

But many cars just don't need oil changes that often and that's what the owner's manual and oil life indicators are there for.

If you'd like to tell me that the engineers that wrote the interval specifications are liars, frauds, or idiots, then go ahead, but please give some sort of credible source other than yourself.

If you'd like to tell me why (and show me some sort of credible source/reference) oil life monitors are, according to you, ineffective and somewhat incapable of accounting for startup temps, trip distances, rpm, speed, time, and other important factors, please, go ahead. I mean, I'm sure they aren't spot-on accurate - they can't even seem to do that with fuel economy readings... but I figure they're close enough, and if necessary would tune the meter to the conservative side to recommend sooner than later, such as on the Corvette - in the beginning of the 5th gen the OLI was actually programmed to recommend a change at about 2/3rds of the actual estimated recommended oil life, which was typically every 10k miles. Later on they realized that was too conservative and bumped it to, on average, 15k miles. The guys who beat the ever living snot out of their later year C5s will get OLIs that tell them to change at 8k... but that's about it.

If you'd like to show me oil sample tests from Blackstone laboratories or their credible competitors that clearly demonstrate excessive/dangerous levels of contamination or breakdown of protective capabilities after 3000 miles, then please go ahead... because I can provide more sample results than you'd have time to read showing every day cars that get driven hard and driven for many miles and pull the oil at intervals even as high as 15-25k miles and the labs still show the oil has quite a bit of safe usable life to it.

mmarshall

I'm not saying that engineers are frauds. Far from it. I have a great deal of respect for them. But ask the typical auto engineer how often he or she changes the oil in their own car. ( I have, on several occasions...with those I have met ). More often than not, it is 3000-5000 miles depending on conditions.

doug_999

I think we can summarize...
Toyota/Lexus have stated oil change intervals. If these intervals are ignored then the engines in question can and do develop a sludge problem.

1. I don't think this means they are a bad design - Toyota states the change interval. Agree with it or not, if you do not follow it, your engine will probably have issues.

2. I think that other engines can go longer without developing the issue. Sometimes it is a combination of design and/or oil type. I don't think this means they are better engineered (this can be argued of course) - but just different.

I do hate that people who did not follow the required maintenance got together with their attorneys and brought this to class action. I do however like the settlement that it goes to binding arbitration.

Of note, my wife's MDX calls for oil changes at 3,750 miles.
My BMW (with synthetic oil and constant stop and go driving) is set to call for it in 6,000 miles (I'm at 7,000 right now and at the one year mark). I changed it at the one year mark - call me chicken.

PS - co-workers son just put a new engine in his Pontiac Vibe (with Toyota engine). Had an oil sludge problem at 43,000 miles - does not have receipts however and says he "might" have gone over a couple of times

hatchback

Very interesting thread... One of the things I dislike most about my LS430 is the 5k mile service interval. For my Honda Odyssey, the service interval is 7.5k miles and for Porsches (with Mobil1) the service interval is a whopping 18k miles. It'd be nice if Toyota could figure out a way to safely extend the service interval of their engines so I don't have to waste so much time having the oil changed.

ES350Bob

Even though I had already sold my 99 ES300 I received the legal notice and entitlement for the car and this was not an action brought by people who did not follow required maintenance. People who did not maintain their car are excluded.

LexBob2

How long did it take between the sale of your '99 and receipt of the legal notice? It sounds like a process that might take a long time for owners to get their entitlement.