How does the "F" series compete with the "M"
01-11-07, 07:58 AM
#63
The IS-F is not trying to be "another" M3.
The IS-F is Lexus' expression of its own unique performance sports sedan.
You want to compare it to the M3 or S4 or CTS-V? Do it. Will it make you happy? Maybe.
Will the IS-F suit your needs, instead of just being part of a contest between one car versus another? You'll find out in about a year...
The IS-F is Lexus' expression of its own unique performance sports sedan.
You want to compare it to the M3 or S4 or CTS-V? Do it. Will it make you happy? Maybe.
Will the IS-F suit your needs, instead of just being part of a contest between one car versus another? You'll find out in about a year...
01-11-07, 09:06 AM
#65
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01-11-07, 09:14 AM
#66
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...which is a cop-out. They know that they still have to make it a Lexus, which means softer suspension, less feel, less noise making its way into the cabin.
Compared to a Corolla or Camry, sure. But compared to its competition, it handles poorly. Again, soft suspension, lack of feedback to the driver, and too much weight.
I'm afraid, for Lexus' sake, that the rules they break will result in a car that won't be classified as a performance car.
Compared to a Corolla or Camry, sure. But compared to its competition, it handles poorly. Again, soft suspension, lack of feedback to the driver, and too much weight.
I'm afraid, for Lexus' sake, that the rules they break will result in a car that won't be classified as a performance car.
How does it handle poorly? Can you specifically elaborate on this point? Does it lack sporty FEEL, or does it objectively handle poorly?
Would you classify the IS350 as "performance car"? For instance, 0 - 60 in 4.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 13.5 sec, and a faster slalom time than either the new G35 or the TL-S, as recorded by R & T.
Is a "performance car" defined only by a sporty feel, objectively strong performance numbers, or both? Is then a Civic Si or a Mini Cooper S a "performance car"? Is the G35 a "performance car"?
It appears many enthusiasts, including some on ClubLexus, change their definition of what a "performance car" is to favour their arguments in a certain context.
01-11-07, 09:22 AM
#67
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Point is, the suspension, the anti-roll bars, the bushings, the springs, and even the steering are all exclusively designed for the IS-F. This is straight from Lexus PR. So right there we have confirmation that quite a lot of parts in the IS-F are exclusive from the IS250, and even the IS350. The exhaust is also likely unique, and then engine certainly is unique, being the 5.0L 2UR-FSE with performance tuned heads (Yamaha helping out). How about the exclusive direct sport shift 8 speed? This has more gears than the IS350, *and* it shifts faster than an IS350.
Does the IS-F have a stiffer chassis, or chassis enhancements? Does it have underbody bracing like the Tacoma X-Runner or Camry SE? Who knows. Lexus has definitely not revealed all details.
The only thing we know so far, is that having seen the spy videos of the IS-F test mules running aroung the 'Ring, this thing is FAST, corners very flat, and was able to hang with M5s and 911s on the track. This is a totally different league than the IS350.
01-11-07, 09:49 AM
#68
Exactly, who knows!
Point is, the suspension, the anti-roll bars, the bushings, the springs, and even the steering are all exclusively designed for the IS-F. This is straight from Lexus PR. So right there we have confirmation that quite a lot of parts in the IS-F are exclusive from the IS250, and even the IS350. The exhaust is also likely unique, and then engine certainly is unique, being the 5.0L 2UR-FSE with performance tuned heads (Yamaha helping out). How about the exclusive direct sport shift 8 speed? This has more gears than the IS350, *and* it shifts faster than an IS350.
Does the IS-F have a stiffer chassis, or chassis enhancements? Does it have underbody bracing like the Tacoma X-Runner or Camry SE? Who knows. Lexus has definitely not revealed all details.
The only thing we know so far, is that having seen the spy videos of the IS-F test mules running aroung the 'Ring, this thing is FAST, corners very flat, and was able to hang with M5s and 911s on the track. This is a totally different league than the IS350.
Point is, the suspension, the anti-roll bars, the bushings, the springs, and even the steering are all exclusively designed for the IS-F. This is straight from Lexus PR. So right there we have confirmation that quite a lot of parts in the IS-F are exclusive from the IS250, and even the IS350. The exhaust is also likely unique, and then engine certainly is unique, being the 5.0L 2UR-FSE with performance tuned heads (Yamaha helping out). How about the exclusive direct sport shift 8 speed? This has more gears than the IS350, *and* it shifts faster than an IS350.
Does the IS-F have a stiffer chassis, or chassis enhancements? Does it have underbody bracing like the Tacoma X-Runner or Camry SE? Who knows. Lexus has definitely not revealed all details.
The only thing we know so far, is that having seen the spy videos of the IS-F test mules running aroung the 'Ring, this thing is FAST, corners very flat, and was able to hang with M5s and 911s on the track. This is a totally different league than the IS350.
01-11-07, 10:07 AM
#69
EV ftw!!!
01-11-07, 10:15 AM
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01-11-07, 10:16 AM
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To me a Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW are three different cars. It comes down to which one you like best. However, they do not compare much.
I remember back in the 90's, it seemed every car was a Maxima. People grew tired of driving the same car as everyone else. That is why a manufacturer like Toyota may sell more cars than anyone else, however, the market share will always remain low. People get bored and they will get bored with any car and desire something different.
Talk to friends a coworkers about Lexus. The name suggests luxury sedans which is the mold they created for themselves and will be very hard to get out of.
Ultimately it is the consumer who decides which cars compete, not a car company.
Last edited by sdbrandon; 01-11-07 at 10:32 AM.
01-11-07, 11:29 AM
#72
Pole Position
Softer suspension? Have you ever driven an IS350 with sport package? Would you call that soft? And compared to an IS350 Sport Package, the IS-F will have a stiffer, lower, and flatter suspension.
How does it handle poorly? Can you specifically elaborate on this point? Does it lack sporty FEEL, or does it objectively handle poorly?
Would you classify the IS350 as "performance car"? For instance, 0 - 60 in 4.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 13.5 sec, and a faster slalom time than either the new G35 or the TL-S, as recorded by R & T.
Is a "performance car" defined only by a sporty feel, objectively strong performance numbers, or both? Is then a Civic Si or a Mini Cooper S a "performance car"? Is the G35 a "performance car"?
It appears many enthusiasts, including some on ClubLexus, change their definition of what a "performance car" is to favour their arguments in a certain context.
How does it handle poorly? Can you specifically elaborate on this point? Does it lack sporty FEEL, or does it objectively handle poorly?
Would you classify the IS350 as "performance car"? For instance, 0 - 60 in 4.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 13.5 sec, and a faster slalom time than either the new G35 or the TL-S, as recorded by R & T.
Is a "performance car" defined only by a sporty feel, objectively strong performance numbers, or both? Is then a Civic Si or a Mini Cooper S a "performance car"? Is the G35 a "performance car"?
It appears many enthusiasts, including some on ClubLexus, change their definition of what a "performance car" is to favour their arguments in a certain context.
Sporty FEEL and actual OBJECTIVE handling data(track times, slalom times) can be totally different things.
01-11-07, 11:34 AM
#73
Pole Position
I suspect that Toyota doesn't WANT to produce a hard-edged handle-at-all-costs sports sedan rather than it CAN'T.
It has literally billions of reserves to throw at automotive engineering research.
The only question is : does it want to spend the money to produce a world-beating suspension/chassis? Does it think that its target market will embrace such a deviation from its current philosophy?
It's a matter of will, not capability.
It has literally billions of reserves to throw at automotive engineering research.
The only question is : does it want to spend the money to produce a world-beating suspension/chassis? Does it think that its target market will embrace such a deviation from its current philosophy?
It's a matter of will, not capability.
01-11-07, 11:46 AM
#74
However, times change, market demands fluctuate, and technology is innovated. Toyota needs to spend money on an aggresive suspension/chassis design for a sports sedan/coupe, but it does not need to make it a "world-beating" design...