Hypnotik

The fact that BMW even acknowledged the infiniti name means that infiniti is doing something right and is becoming more known in the luxury world. Infiniti doesnt even exist in all markets in the world yet and BMW is worried. Perception seems to be changing pretty fast. Very good thing for infiniti imo

mmarshall

You're mostly correct...I would modify your statement slightly to say that Porsche is perhaps the world's most profitable mass-producer of cars (even in spite of sky-high labor prices and low productivity in German factories).

But......there's a reason for that. Porsche vehicles, for the most part, are simply overpriced, brand-new, for what they offer, especially compared to many of their competitiors. They can be great buys, though, when they are a couple of years old and have depreciated some.

But as brand-new cars, IMO they are grossly overpriced. For instance, the brand-new Porsche Boxster I reviewed a few weeks ago, at $48,000, IMO did not offer substantially more for the money than a $35,000 Honda S2000. And it offered little more driving fun than a $24,000 Miata that is literally half the price. Yes, Porsches have great sheet metal, excellent paint jobs, and plenty of power, but still IMO are overpriced.

OK.....sorry....I know I got off topic, but just wanted to make that ppint.

Hypnotik

Infiniti is marketed in North America, Canada, Taiwan, the middle east, Korea, Russia, china

JZA80MHU38

If Porsche are "simply overpriced", then the demand should drop like crazy, right? How can they still be the most profitable car manufacturer in the world then?

Also, if you think a company can "simply" make money by overpricing their cars, then why don't Toyota and Lexus do so?

mmarshall

No, not necessarily. Porsche-o-Philes, high price or not, are dedicated people. I have a friend who ordered one of the original, first-year Boxsters in March 1997. He waited thirteen months for the car without complaining....and paid a dealer mark-up as well. Took delivery in April 1998, despite a second new assembly plant for Boxsters built in Finland at the time.
The car was technically over a year old when he got it, which ordinarily would have cut into its value except for the terrific demand for early Boxsters. When you market and sell to people like that, you can charge high prices......and get them. Demand will not drop.


The basic answer is that Toyota gets terrific competition from Honda, Subaru, and Hyundai in building low-priced, reliable vehicles. Subaru, of course, sells only AWD vehicles in the American market, but the other companies dig right at Toyota's heels in both the 2WD and AWD categories.
Hyundai, in many ways, is rapidly becoming the new Toyota...they are not yet as big as Toyota, but are now producing vehicles of Toyota/Honda build quality ( yes, I'm serious ) with lower prices and longer warranties.....prices and warranties that Japanese manufacturers, except for Suzuki, as yet cannot equal....and Suzuki's American-market passenger cars, ironically, are mostly Korean ( Daewoo) built too.

Also, another factor in this class of vehicles is the fact that, unlike many Porsche-o-Philes and BMW junkies, entry-level vehicle buyers are not necesarily die-hards. They have shown a remarkable tendency to gravitate to other makes if they produce comparable quality at lower prices.....a major reason for Hyundai's huge rise in the last several years.

JZA80MHU38

In a nutshell, Porsche is not overpriced. At least Adam Smith will agree.

mmarshall

Yes and no. It is not necessarily overpriced if you look at it from a purely capitalist market and demand standpoint. It most definitely IS when you look at value for the money.

JZA80MHU38

Value is an individual perspective. One may think it's not worth it (personal opinion), or one just can't afford it (personal financial situation), but it doesn't mean that particular product is overpriced (big picture).

xioix

No, Porsche makes more money per car sold than Toyota, but Toyota makes the most money of any car manufacturer in the world, and is one of the most profitable companies around

LexFather

I love Porsches but they are very overpriced. I mean for what 20hp, you have to order an over $15,000 package on the 911. The Boxster and 996 911 shared I think 40% of its parts. Hell both front ends WERE THE SAME to save money. This was NOT passed on to consumers for the most part. The Cayman S can be optioned to over 70k with NO issues.
The Boxster/911/Cayman have the SAME interiors. The Cayman/Boxster gets what, oval vents to differentiate themselves.
The crazier thing is THE MORE YOU PAY, the more sameness you get. a 911 Turbo interior has basically identical to a basic 911.
The GT2 is the most expensive 911, and guess what, they TAKE AWAY the AWD system!
Yeah they get different wings, different suspensions and crazily, they can make 911s drive like different cars.

And now the brand is so HOT, people will pay anything.

I mean I have a HUGE respect and love for Porsche but value and price/power is not one of their selling points!

spwolf

Actually, Toyota has higher profit margin than BMW. And we are not talking about Lexus, but global Toyota, with millions of Yaris's, Corolla's and Camry's sold. Thats for 2006 fiscal year.

Porsche has bigger profit margin than Toyota, but Porsche is considerably more luxurios and premium brand than BMW or Lexus, let alone Toyota. They probably make 70x less cars than Toyota.

rcracer_tx

You are aware that Lexus branding is only sold to a small part of the world, right? Most of the world, Lexus is marketed as a Toyota. Example: Lexus SC series is a Toyota Soarer almost everywhere except America.

Power isn't everything, Take the Boxster S to a slalom course, its has amazing handling, and it will beat the Ferrari Enzo. Also, The Boxster is far superior in terms of quality compared to an s2000 or miata.

And on another note, BMW might be one of the top sellers, but they couldn't even make the top ten list in terms of reliability, What a POS.

LexFather

Sorry dude its the other way around, Lexus is Lexus everywhere EXCEPT in Japan and I think Australia. Everywhere else, it pretty much was Lexus.

insider

Of course BMW is not worried as much about Lexus. The cars simply just do not handle well enough to compete with the BMW. Lexus as been around over ten years and still can't get a decent handling car. The IS350 just handles poorly compared to the BMW. Infiniti, on the other hand, does offer a nice handling car, like the BMW. So I can see why BMW made that statement.

JZA80MHU38

This is not completely correct. In certain countries/regions Lexus doesn't carry all the models like they do in the US, so the local "grey market" dealers will carry the Toyota products. For example, before Crown Motor (the distributor for Toyota/Lexus in HK) import the Lexus badged SC430, some other dealers are importing the Soarers. Those dealers also had Harrier Hybrid before Crown imported the Lexus badged RX400h