mmarshall

Yes, CR, despite the excellence of their data, is not a perfect organization. That is one of their weak points...the website restrictions. People who get the regular CR newsstand issues don't usually NEED the website except for old searches. It is the people who DON'T get the paper copy who DO need the website...yet they are the very ones wo are restricted. Doesn't make sense to me, except to force more subscriptions. Other auto magazines don't operate like that...they put their info more freely on the website.

Generally the average number of defects per 100 cars....and the personal satisfaction with the car. of course, the term "defect" means different things ro different people.

Like many European-designed vehicles, Land Rovers have a lot of electrical, wiring, and computer-related problems....although the newer ones are much better than the old ones with the Lucas electrical systems which were awful. They also, to a lesser extent, have problems with hardware and fluid leaks.

The Land Rover LR-3 model has been particularly unreliable, with a high problem rate in many different categories, not just electronics and hardware.

mavericck

Don't confuse European cars (which includes British) with German cars which a drastically better than their European counterparts.

mmarshall

See my response to sdbrandon above.

mmarshall

German cars today, especially Mercedes, are some of the most unreliable of all. Consumer Reports places many M-B products at the very bottom of the rankings for reliability, some of them with astounding problem rates for 21st-century vehicles; worse than Land Rovers. BMW's range from the very unreliable 7-series to the 3-series, which is average. Audis and VW's are generally worse than average ( some Passats have been average ) , but not as bad as Mercedes.

Cars of Swedish design....Volvos and Saabs...also have some electrical issues but not as much as the Germans and British. Their designs, of course, are moderated by Ford and GM influence. Their repair records have been roughly average overall.

mavericck

Most of those CR reports are based off owners taking their cars in for stupid little things like a squeak or rattle here and there or a cup-holder that broke, CR then tally's those trips to the dealer and equates that to unreliability. Also those ratings are for older cars which did have problems but the new German lineup of cars is very reliable. I tend to go off personal experience rather than listen to some idiot at CR doesn't know the first thing about cars or driving dynamics. Some of their people who review blenders and toasters also write the reviews and ratings for the cars as well....kinda makes me wonder.

mmarshall

No, CR employs qualified auto engineers for their auto tests....not just blender and toaster-examiners.
As far as your other points, your opinion noted. I respect it though I don't agree with all of it. And.....I'm glad that your experience with newer German-designed cars has been good. For many others, that has not been the case. But there is some evidence that the electronics are getting better in German cars as those companies identify and redesign the source of many of those problems......poor wiring harnesses and connectors. Studies have been done by the auto industry trying to determine why Japanese-designed auto electronics were so much more reliable than German and British ones, and that was one of the things it boiled down to.....the foolproof design of Japanese connectors, making them very easy to install properly by assembly-line workers.

DrUnBiased

Land Rovers in general are not very reliable. 50% of Land Rovers purchased have to go back to the dealer for warranty work. Lucky for me, I am part of the other 50%, so far. I don't mind the reliability issues considering it hasn't happened to me yet. No other car can match my Range Rover for comfort and off-road capability. The car is a blast off-road.

I'm sure Land Rover knows their cars are not the most reliable because they have a roadside assistance service that is unbelievable from what I have heard. I read a story about an owner and his son who were out in the Canadian Rockies with their Range Rover off-roading when one of the electrical components died as he was driving which caused the car to shut-off and not restart. Because of his location, he was over 5 hours away from the nearest available tow-truck. Anyone who has had experience with towing companies know that their estimated times of arrival are usually ALWAYS very underestimated. 5 hours probably meant 10. Using the GPS Navi in the car, Land Rover pin-pointed his exact location and actually sent a helicopter to pick them up. The car was left there for the tow-truck to pick up the next day. I don't know any other details to the story but all I know is if I was stuck in the cold Canadian Rockies with my son, a helicopter pick up would be a very welcomed proposal and a great way to gain a repeat buyer.

mmarshall

No arguments about them being comfortable off-road. That is their main forte.....and the reason many people buy them despite their unreliability.
Yet the majority of SUV buyers today, even with Land Rovers, don't actually GO off-road, but buy them for all-weather capability on-pavement ( which you can get with AWD cars, too ) or for the off-road "image" that they want to project. Yes, believe it or not, there are some people who even buy the classic off-road Jeep Wrangler, never actually GO off-road, and put up with the Wrangler's awful on-pavement ride and handling ( especially with the Rubicon model ) because they want to "look" tough without actually BEING tough.

Anyhow, back to your Land Rover story. To some extent, you EXPECT good factory service when you fork out the kind of cash a Range Rover costs. But one thing puzzles me...how did they get a tow truck out in those conditions to GET to the stalled Rover? Even with 4WD and a heavy-duty truck chassis, tow trucks are generally not designed for that kind of surroundings. Perhaps they were not actually off-road when the vehicle broke down.

sdbrandon

Great story about the helicopter. I think reliability is important but not at the top of my list. If I focused soley on reliability I would missed out on owning some great vehicles in my lifetime.

rg_gibson

I hate to say it but Land Rovers are verryyy unreliable. So many customers have complained that Ford has put a deadline on the Land Rover's factory in England to correct all of the simple problems that the factory should've corrected. The European cars are becoming the most unreliable while the Japanese are so far ahead.

rg_gibson

I've heard that Land Rovers suffer with many electrical problems.

GS wanted

iTrader: (9)

Not sure about the current Range Rovers but I know the previous generation had big problems with their suspension. I have a buddy that's been loyal to Range Rovers (owned 3 of them) and all have had suspension problems.

A good source of info on them can be found here:
http://www.rangerovers.net/rrmkiiiremedies.html

Lexizm

iTrader: (2)

Sorry man but I think your listing is 'BS'!!! Granted Land Rover has always been bad as far as dependibility but since Ford has taken over, it's been even worse. Ford owns Jaguar and Jaguars have been catching a fire for years, and since Ford has taken over...down hill, they're just more affordable now. Cadilac is gabbage...not garbage...but gabbage and it's ranked high on the list. J.D. Power, imo are just like politicians. Give enough loot and they'll speak up in your behalf.

I wanted a Range Rover, but their track record is what deterred me and made me stay away.

valgs350

iTrader: (1)

There Engines Suck!

On the 2002 Range Rover the suspension had a huge problem!

jhenty

The air suspensions go on all of them, just as they do on most cars. Most of the old ones are all horrible, the new ones all horrible as well. Many models however have fantastic build quality. We have a 2003 Range Rover in the family which was designed by BMW before ford bought them, its honestly a BMW in every way but a few parts. The engine (4.4 v8 from x5, and 40s), the buttons, controls, ect, ect, is straight from BMW. (i know this because we also have a 03 x5 4.4). We purchased it about 8 months ago with 75,000 miles. It now has 100,000 and we have only replaced the maf sensor and alternator to date for a total of about $1,200. Its been a fantastic car overall and runs strong. I think it will be fine for years to come. The electronics are the only thing that worries me. The interior by the way is amazing and the real reason we purchased it.