Audi: Lexus doesn't resonate
01-24-07, 01:07 AM
#31
Well if you compared Audi sales world wide to the combined sales of Lexus and Toyota world wide, then it would only make sense and be fair to compare the combined sales of VW and Audi world-wide...not to mention Lamborghini, Bugatti, and Bentley to Toyota and Lexus. Just trying to be fair here.
01-24-07, 01:20 AM
#32
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So would I, I honestly don't know the figures and if anyone does post them please post the reference so it can be verified and it won't look like you pulled them out of your ***. I honestly think it would be close with Toyota in the lead, but if you were to compare the combined sales of Toyota/Lexus vs VW/Audi I think VW/Audi might have more sales world-wide....just a guess...could be wrong though.
01-24-07, 05:15 AM
#33
If Audi is going to compare their sales worldwide to Lexus sales worldwide, then they really should combine Lexus and Toyota sales, because whatever Audi (and BMW and MB for that matter) sell in Europe are a bunch of cheap econoboxes that can be slapped silly by a Scion xB. They need to realize that Lexus is a true PREMIUM brand, and will not resort to four cylinder crapboxes.
In Europe Audi have a stand alone dealer network and a continuing investment in new and bigger premises. Glasgow Audi has conference rooms, a museum and even an art gallery. In the last 15 years sales have shot ahead and it is considered a premium brand equal, if not superior to, BMW and Mercedes. It has a reputation for high quality, understated style, reliability and high residuals. You have to take your hat off to them for that. Audi also has a heritage, like BMW and Mercedes - something that a Japanese brand with a made up name for the US market, that many see as a marketing exercise to sell more expensive Toyotas, will need time to develop.
Lexus launched in Europe about 15 years ago and have had most success in the UK, less so elsewhere. They do have a stand alone network of dealers but the brand is really not well known among the general public. Most people see Lexus as "old mens' cars" or "posh Toyotas". The brand is not seen as a premium brand - more on a level with Volvo and Honda. The lack of sporting "halo" models, estate versions and diesels has been another problem.
I love my IS but if Lexus ever want to replicate their success the the US they need to take a much closer look at how Audi has built its brand in Europe.
01-24-07, 05:19 AM
#34
So would I, I honestly don't know the figures and if anyone does post them please post the reference so it can be verified and it won't look like you pulled them out of your ***. I honestly think it would be close with Toyota in the lead, but if you were to compare the combined sales of Toyota/Lexus vs VW/Audi I think VW/Audi might have more sales world-wide....just a guess...could be wrong though.
01-24-07, 06:54 AM
#35
So would I, I honestly don't know the figures and if anyone does post them please post the reference so it can be verified and it won't look like you pulled them out of your ***. I honestly think it would be close with Toyota in the lead, but if you were to compare the combined sales of Toyota/Lexus vs VW/Audi I think VW/Audi might have more sales world-wide....just a guess...could be wrong though.
01-24-07, 06:58 AM
#36
er...except the best selling Lexus in Europe is the 4 cylinder 2.2 litre diesel.
In Europe Audi have a stand alone dealer network and a continuing investment in new and bigger premises. Glasgow Audi has conference rooms, a museum and even an art gallery. In the last 15 years sales have shot ahead and it is considered a premium brand equal, if not superior to, BMW and Mercedes. It has a reputation for high quality, understated style, reliability and high residuals. You have to take your hat off to them for that. Audi also has a heritage, like BMW and Mercedes - something that a Japanese brand with a made up name for the US market, that many see as a marketing exercise to sell more expensive Toyotas, will need time to develop.
Lexus launched in Europe about 15 years ago and have had most success in the UK, less so elsewhere. They do have a stand alone network of dealers but the brand is really not well known among the general public. Most people see Lexus as "old mens' cars" or "posh Toyotas". The brand is not seen as a premium brand - more on a level with Volvo and Honda. The lack of sporting "halo" models, estate versions and diesels has been another problem.
I love my IS but if Lexus ever want to replicate their success the the US they need to take a much closer look at how Audi has built its brand in Europe.
In Europe Audi have a stand alone dealer network and a continuing investment in new and bigger premises. Glasgow Audi has conference rooms, a museum and even an art gallery. In the last 15 years sales have shot ahead and it is considered a premium brand equal, if not superior to, BMW and Mercedes. It has a reputation for high quality, understated style, reliability and high residuals. You have to take your hat off to them for that. Audi also has a heritage, like BMW and Mercedes - something that a Japanese brand with a made up name for the US market, that many see as a marketing exercise to sell more expensive Toyotas, will need time to develop.
Lexus launched in Europe about 15 years ago and have had most success in the UK, less so elsewhere. They do have a stand alone network of dealers but the brand is really not well known among the general public. Most people see Lexus as "old mens' cars" or "posh Toyotas". The brand is not seen as a premium brand - more on a level with Volvo and Honda. The lack of sporting "halo" models, estate versions and diesels has been another problem.
I love my IS but if Lexus ever want to replicate their success the the US they need to take a much closer look at how Audi has built its brand in Europe.
Most sold Audi was A4 with 1.9 TDI engine, 110hp or 130hp.
I would easily bet that around the world, Lexus, easily, outsells Audi when not comparing 4cly engines.
It is VERY hard to find V6 Audi's, and when you do, resale value is awful because their V6 diesels have had a lot of problems.
Audi is very different to BMW or MB in Europe. It doesnt have anywhere near close the status of those two brands, and by far all they sell is FWD.
01-24-07, 07:49 AM
#37
It is VERY hard to find V6 Audi's, and when you do, resale value is awful because their V6 diesels have had a lot of problems.
Audi is very different to BMW or MB in Europe. It doesnt have anywhere near close the status of those two brands, and by far all they sell is FWD.
Audi is very different to BMW or MB in Europe. It doesnt have anywhere near close the status of those two brands, and by far all they sell is FWD.
My wife works for an Audi dealership as a Quality Manager - the V6 diesels are in great demand due to their power and fuel economy. They never have a problem with them.
In Europe Audi most certainly is considered of equal status to BMW and MB - yes they are front wheel drive but don't forget all models are available with Quattro 4-wheel drive - a system which is far more respected than those of BMW or MB.
MB also has the stigma of being the standard issue for taxi drivers in Europe. Step off the ferry into even the smallest Greek island and you will have a line of MB taxis queuing for your business. Personally I don't want to drive a taxi.
I still think the IS is a better looking car than the A4, 3-series and C class while the GS is better looking than the A6, 5 series and E class. (We don't get the ES in Europe as it is too obviously a Camry in a nice frock).
01-24-07, 08:55 AM
#38
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Uph, IS220d and RX400h sell about the same...
Most sold Audi was A4 with 1.9 TDI engine, 110hp or 130hp.
I would easily bet that around the world, Lexus, easily, outsells Audi when not comparing 4cly engines.
It is VERY hard to find V6 Audi's, and when you do, resale value is awful because their V6 diesels have had a lot of problems.
Audi is very different to BMW or MB in Europe. It doesnt have anywhere near close the status of those two brands, and by far all they sell is FWD.
Most sold Audi was A4 with 1.9 TDI engine, 110hp or 130hp.
I would easily bet that around the world, Lexus, easily, outsells Audi when not comparing 4cly engines.
It is VERY hard to find V6 Audi's, and when you do, resale value is awful because their V6 diesels have had a lot of problems.
Audi is very different to BMW or MB in Europe. It doesnt have anywhere near close the status of those two brands, and by far all they sell is FWD.
01-24-07, 08:57 AM
#39
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nevermind I checked for myself and you are correct. Toyota is the 2nd largest auto manufacturer with around 8.8 million vehicles sold and VW as a whole is the 4th with around 5 million vehicles sold.
Last edited by mavericck; 01-24-07 at 09:28 AM.
01-24-07, 09:03 AM
#40
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
Correct me if I am wrong but the Lexus presence in Europe and Asia are pretty small. Look at the Lexus vehicle lineup in England. Offers only few vehicles. It's not that people don't buy it. It's that there isn't much to choose from.
Chris
Chris
01-24-07, 09:23 AM
#41
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er...except the best selling Lexus in Europe is the 4 cylinder 2.2 litre diesel.
In Europe Audi have a stand alone dealer network and a continuing investment in new and bigger premises. Glasgow Audi has conference rooms, a museum and even an art gallery. In the last 15 years sales have shot ahead and it is considered a premium brand equal, if not superior to, BMW and Mercedes. It has a reputation for high quality, understated style, reliability and high residuals. You have to take your hat off to them for that. Audi also has a heritage, like BMW and Mercedes - something that a Japanese brand with a made up name for the US market, that many see as a marketing exercise to sell more expensive Toyotas, will need time to develop.
Lexus launched in Europe about 15 years ago and have had most success in the UK, less so elsewhere. They do have a stand alone network of dealers but the brand is really not well known among the general public. Most people see Lexus as "old mens' cars" or "posh Toyotas". The brand is not seen as a premium brand - more on a level with Volvo and Honda. The lack of sporting "halo" models, estate versions and diesels has been another problem.
I love my IS but if Lexus ever want to replicate their success the the US they need to take a much closer look at how Audi has built its brand in Europe.
In Europe Audi have a stand alone dealer network and a continuing investment in new and bigger premises. Glasgow Audi has conference rooms, a museum and even an art gallery. In the last 15 years sales have shot ahead and it is considered a premium brand equal, if not superior to, BMW and Mercedes. It has a reputation for high quality, understated style, reliability and high residuals. You have to take your hat off to them for that. Audi also has a heritage, like BMW and Mercedes - something that a Japanese brand with a made up name for the US market, that many see as a marketing exercise to sell more expensive Toyotas, will need time to develop.
Lexus launched in Europe about 15 years ago and have had most success in the UK, less so elsewhere. They do have a stand alone network of dealers but the brand is really not well known among the general public. Most people see Lexus as "old mens' cars" or "posh Toyotas". The brand is not seen as a premium brand - more on a level with Volvo and Honda. The lack of sporting "halo" models, estate versions and diesels has been another problem.
I love my IS but if Lexus ever want to replicate their success the the US they need to take a much closer look at how Audi has built its brand in Europe.
01-24-07, 09:44 AM
#42
IS250 & IS220d
GS350, 430 and 450h
LS430 now LS460
RX 350 and RX400h
The hybrids are getting quite popular because company car taxation is based on C02 emissions so you can run a GS450h or a RX400h as a company car and get taxed far less than an Audi, BMW or MB. Also the hybrids are exempt from the London Congestion Charge so you can drive them into London free instead of £8 per day ( soon to rise to £25 per day for 4x4s and higher poluters). Albeit that the hybrids don't deliver any better fuel consumption than a diesel model they go have a "green" image which is becoming more fashionable and certainly seems to be giving Lexus a competitve edge in this market.
01-24-07, 02:35 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
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01-24-07, 02:39 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
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Even in the 19*70*s Audi was a VERY respected brand. Audi 80s, 100s, etc., were EXCELLENT cars, very well respected.
One of my fondest memories with my father was him driving us around in an Audi 100 for a day when he was taking care of it for a friend. That car was awesome in its day. Quiet, powerful, refined - I was in awe of it.
Audi 100 eventually changed number to the 5000 as the flagship and then eventually the A8... they've come a long way but always stand tall in my book.
I saw an LS460 (SWB) today in a parking lot. It was dark grey and I was underwhelmed by its lack of presence. Shortly thereafter I saw the rear end of a new Camry parked someplace else and my initial reaction was "wow, another LS460 in the same day, what are the chances of that..." and then I realized "Oh, it's a Camry".
Now I do think the LWB LS460 in black or white looks hot, but still not A8 presence.
One of my fondest memories with my father was him driving us around in an Audi 100 for a day when he was taking care of it for a friend. That car was awesome in its day. Quiet, powerful, refined - I was in awe of it.
Audi 100 eventually changed number to the 5000 as the flagship and then eventually the A8... they've come a long way but always stand tall in my book.
I saw an LS460 (SWB) today in a parking lot. It was dark grey and I was underwhelmed by its lack of presence. Shortly thereafter I saw the rear end of a new Camry parked someplace else and my initial reaction was "wow, another LS460 in the same day, what are the chances of that..." and then I realized "Oh, it's a Camry".
Now I do think the LWB LS460 in black or white looks hot, but still not A8 presence.