BMW wrong slots with manual M5 (disappointed customers)
01-25-07, 10:44 AM
#1
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BMW wrong slots with manual M5 (disappointed customers)
North American customers were delighted when BMW bowed to their demands for a full three-pedal manual version of the current V10 M5 super saloon, but aren’t quiet so enamoured with the finished product.
The issue is not with the gearbox itself – BMW successfully replaced the European model’s seven-speed SMG box with the old-shape M5’s six-speed manual – but with the compromises that were needed to get there.
Without the benefit of computer control for the opening and closing of the clutch plates, M division’s engineers couldn’t eliminate axle tramp under hard take-offs. The only solution was to make it impossible to fully switch out the DSC stability system, although you can still employ the half-way house M Dynamic mode which is probably enough for all but the most crazed sideways obsessives.
But punters in the US aren’t happy at what they see as a compromised M car. Which must be incredibly frustrating for M boss Gerhard Richter, who never believed a manual box was right for the car and was only bowing to commercial and boardroom pressure.
BMW has no plans to bring the manual M5 to Europe. And it doesn't sound like we should be too upset.
The issue is not with the gearbox itself – BMW successfully replaced the European model’s seven-speed SMG box with the old-shape M5’s six-speed manual – but with the compromises that were needed to get there.
Without the benefit of computer control for the opening and closing of the clutch plates, M division’s engineers couldn’t eliminate axle tramp under hard take-offs. The only solution was to make it impossible to fully switch out the DSC stability system, although you can still employ the half-way house M Dynamic mode which is probably enough for all but the most crazed sideways obsessives.
But punters in the US aren’t happy at what they see as a compromised M car. Which must be incredibly frustrating for M boss Gerhard Richter, who never believed a manual box was right for the car and was only bowing to commercial and boardroom pressure.
BMW has no plans to bring the manual M5 to Europe. And it doesn't sound like we should be too upset.
01-25-07, 10:54 AM
#2
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01-25-07, 11:21 AM
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They must've been reading internet forums and concluded that
there was HUGE demand for a manual...
I wonder how many IS250 manuals Lexus actually sells per year...
Five? Six? LOL...
there was HUGE demand for a manual...
I wonder how many IS250 manuals Lexus actually sells per year...
Five? Six? LOL...
01-25-07, 12:08 PM
#4
I think everyone should be pissed......
Cant believe BMW cant eliminate wheel hop in the E60........ Ofcourse their excuse is probably that its a GT car not a drag car, and is meant to just hook and GO....... for $90k I would expect a perfect car that I can enjoy any way I want....
The wheel hop even in E39 is retarded, its one of the worst of any car I've owned, just stupid to burn out and put the drivetrain through all that stress ,
Cant believe BMW cant eliminate wheel hop in the E60........ Ofcourse their excuse is probably that its a GT car not a drag car, and is meant to just hook and GO....... for $90k I would expect a perfect car that I can enjoy any way I want....
The wheel hop even in E39 is retarded, its one of the worst of any car I've owned, just stupid to burn out and put the drivetrain through all that stress ,
01-25-07, 12:52 PM
#5
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One friend THAT HAD an M5 was pissed with the one he had due to problems with the shift set up and was going to wait for the new M5 got even more ticked and went for an S4 (last time he was going to spend over a $100K, http://mx.autos.yahoo.com/newcars/bm...e_overview.php down here for a vehicle, but now I can imagine he will be delighted when I forward this to him.
01-25-07, 01:24 PM
#6
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Bmw being a very successul and independent company can get egotistical. They told us "we don't know good design, Bangle is best". Now they are telling us "SMG is the future, manuals suck". This a company who's reputation is partially built on offering 3 pedals when the competiton does not. How can you abanden that?? I might as well buy me a Lexus, AMG or Audi. Where is the 3 pedal advantage????
Clearly they feel very strongly about SMG. There are those that simply do not want it, nor the continued reliance and use of electronics. SMG is getting better. It is a really good semi-auto system. Most drivers might be faster in a SMG equipped car.
What is odd is they put SMG in the M5 but not the active sway bars, b/c "it was too artificial for a M5". So its okay to put in SMG, but not the active sway bars?
SMG is also about sales. 2 pedals, ANYONE can drive. 3 pedals= true select few.
Manuals just give you more involvement, no matter how good semi-autos are.
I feel more involvement many times, driving a lowly 185hp ES than my GS when it had e-shift.
I hope BMW goes back to its roots, and offers manuals. Otherwise, AMG will continue to get better and dominate.
Clearly they feel very strongly about SMG. There are those that simply do not want it, nor the continued reliance and use of electronics. SMG is getting better. It is a really good semi-auto system. Most drivers might be faster in a SMG equipped car.
What is odd is they put SMG in the M5 but not the active sway bars, b/c "it was too artificial for a M5". So its okay to put in SMG, but not the active sway bars?
SMG is also about sales. 2 pedals, ANYONE can drive. 3 pedals= true select few.
Manuals just give you more involvement, no matter how good semi-autos are.
I feel more involvement many times, driving a lowly 185hp ES than my GS when it had e-shift.
I hope BMW goes back to its roots, and offers manuals. Otherwise, AMG will continue to get better and dominate.
01-25-07, 01:41 PM
#7
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This is true about the pedals. Down here, when Mazda was looking to bring in the RX8 (they are actually waiting until later this year), by a very wide margin people wanted to have an automatic over a stick, even though it seems this whole country is stickshift, but turns out the traffic issues here meant people wanted something easier to handle.
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01-25-07, 01:51 PM
#8
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Isn't BMW slowly killing off SMG in favor of a DSG type transmission? I only mention it because even though I (in general) disagree with them not offering manuals in some models, it would be advantageous to use a transmission like DSG as opposed to SMG.
01-25-07, 03:34 PM
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i whole heartely agree with picus
DSG > SMG
even volvo is making their own version of DSG
these luxury car makers need to catch up on these essential technology to really give what the ppl want
ppl dont just want a manual M5, they want a GOOD manual M5
i think BMW were under too much pressure to bring it out in a short period of time that they couldnt come out with any good solutions and thus making this big mistake...
DSG > SMG
even volvo is making their own version of DSG
these luxury car makers need to catch up on these essential technology to really give what the ppl want
ppl dont just want a manual M5, they want a GOOD manual M5
i think BMW were under too much pressure to bring it out in a short period of time that they couldnt come out with any good solutions and thus making this big mistake...
01-25-07, 04:07 PM
#10
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Can't say I disagree with BMW's position. Axle tramp is a royal ***** to eliminate as the power climbs up. You want to eliminate axle tramp? you go to a solid and completely re-engineer the chassis to accept it properly. Besides, how many actual consumers introduce next to nil driveline shock? How many stay out of the power when it tramps?
They should have designed it for stick to begin with however and solved all the problems.
They should have designed it for stick to begin with however and solved all the problems.
01-25-07, 11:04 PM
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I personally think they rushed it to market. However, if I were to pick up a $95K M5, I would not take it to the track and thus I would get the stick. That said, most of these buyers want the ability to take their car to the track and therein lies the rub - you can't with the stick if you want to take it to the track.....
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