What is the Best Car under 50K?
01-28-07, 06:15 PM
#46
I dont know about that... My cousin has an RL and while I have not drivin a GS350, I do have an IS350 (same engine as the GS and not much lighter) and his RL is not even close to being as responsive as my IS, be it low or high RPMs and he agrees with me. Infact, anything below 3k RPM's and it's a complete dog. Maybe it's the combination of the ligher weight and RWD only, but the performance difference is quite large.
I can see that. The RL with its 290HP was marginally quicker than the AWD GS300 with 245HP. Both those cars can crack 0-60 in a few ticks under 7 seconds which is not fast by any means, but not dog slow either. The GS350 IMHO is the best all around GS around. The 350's engine has enough HP to equal the GS450H, best or equal the GS430, and cost less than either. That is the GS I personally would by myself.
Even if I like the Honda engines, I can see that the enginein the RL is getting outdated. It is based off the J spec engine that came out in 1997. The GS engine is virtually brand new with more technology. It is too bad Honda and Toyota have different engine cycles. Honda's next engine will probably be awsome and one of the best again. Then Toyota will come out with a new one and it will be tops. Too bad they can't release the engines at the same time so we can experience both of them at the same life cycle
01-28-07, 06:20 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
Wrong, try again
Have you seen the 2 forums. The RL forum is DEAD. No traffic. It simply did not and does not attract a young buyer. Period. For all its SH-AWD prowness (which is the best AWD system now) it is wrapped in such a bland looking car, enthusiasts stay away.
Look over here. The 3GS forum is active. Look at the modified thread. TONS of modified cars. On top of that the AFTERMARKET has totally supported the GS. The RL, you can get maybe a spoiler.
Don't get me wrong. I think the RL is a good car. However, clearly the people think the GS is the better car, or the RL wouldn't have near 10k discounts.
I totally disagree with the RL being better built (it is Accord based) and a better sports sedan than the GS.
I bet you can't find even 10 modded RLs
Have you seen the 2 forums. The RL forum is DEAD. No traffic. It simply did not and does not attract a young buyer. Period. For all its SH-AWD prowness (which is the best AWD system now) it is wrapped in such a bland looking car, enthusiasts stay away.Look over here. The 3GS forum is active. Look at the modified thread. TONS of modified cars. On top of that the AFTERMARKET has totally supported the GS. The RL, you can get maybe a spoiler.
Don't get me wrong. I think the RL is a good car. However, clearly the people think the GS is the better car, or the RL wouldn't have near 10k discounts.
I totally disagree with the RL being better built (it is Accord based) and a better sports sedan than the GS.
I bet you can't find even 10 modded RLs
Of course the RL is not going to sell as well as the GS or alot of its better received competition simply because the previous model was so luckluster and the original RL had no following and not many fans unlike the 2nd Gen GS which sold well and has a very good following. A good portion of 3rd Gen GS buyers are 2nd Gen GS owners. Also there are more engine and drivetrain choices for the GS where with the RL you only get one. Another reason is you can get a TL for 15K less that is quicker, gets better gas mileage, about the same size, with a more aggressive exterior and nice (although not really on the same league with the RL) interior. I never said the 3rd Gen GS was a bad car and I did recommend it and put it on my list. Just after being in and test driving both I felt the RL edged out the GS300. When people reply that the RL is just a fancy Accord or not even in the same league as the GS then it tells me either they have a bias against Acura and for their preferred brand and that they did not actually test both cars with an open mind.
Just because the new RL shares an Accord platform does not mean it is automatically not built as well if not better then a GS and does not mean it can't be a good sports sedan or loses out to the GS. The Accord has always been a good handling car and wins most comparisons because it offers a decent blend of smooth ride and good handling while being extremely reliable. The RL was designed and built to be a very good handling sports sedan which it is. I have not really read reviews of people gushing over the GS in the performance/handling department and I have read more about the RL being a very good handling car although them wanting more steering feel and horsepower. My second Gen GS maybe RWD and have a nice v-8 but it is also a pretty sloppy floaty handler and offers little driver feedback and you can certainly feel the weight of this car. It is certainly no sports sedan stock and that is why the second Gen forum is popular with people modifying the suspension to improve handling because they are not very satisfied with it stock. When you floor it the power overwelms the stock chasis and suspension which is not the sign of a high performance tuned sports sedan. My parents 99TL and 03CL that share an Accord platform are much less floaty then my GS, handle better and offer more feedback for a better more involving sporty drive.
There may not be alot of enthusiasts buying the RL but enthusiasts are not really buying the GS either. People buying the GS are mainly buying it because they liked the last one, want a modern well built reliable luxury sedan, and want a Lexus badged car and the GS fits their needs, they are not buying it based on any high performance or sports car handling aspects. Enthusiasts who need 4 doors are generally buying the 5 series or M35-M45, with a few going with the AMG benzes, S model Audi's .
As far as looks go I agree the RL is not setting the automotive world on fire with its looks but I still think it is a good looking car. Frankly I think in the looks department there is alot left to be desired with mid level Japanese luxury sedans like the RL, new GS, and M35. The GS is pretty bland too and looks alot like a Maxima or Altima, and I have personally witnessed a few people mistake the two cars. The 3rd Gen GS to me does not really look like an upscale luxury car like the 2nd Gen did especially from the rear and looks more like something that could be sold as a Toyota. Same goes for the M35 in that it does not really look that upscale. The 3rd Gen GS does have a more modern look then the 2nd Gen GS but I think the 2nd Gen has it beat hands down in the looks department especially with a spoiler.
Last edited by UDel; 01-28-07 at 09:52 PM.
01-28-07, 06:36 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
I dont know about that... My cousin has an RL and while I have not drivin a GS350, I do have an IS350 (same engine as the GS and not much lighter) and his RL is not even close to being as responsive as my IS, be it low or high RPMs and he agrees with me. Infact, anything below 3k RPM's and it's a complete dog. Maybe it's the combination of the ligher weight and RWD only, but the performance difference is quite large.
01-28-07, 06:44 PM
#49
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I agree with you partly. I think the GS has much more appeal among younger buyers. The public clearly likes it better as well. I'd take a GS430 and even a GS350 over the RL myself. In the past, I would have taken the RL over the GS300 though. Personally, I wouldn't mind owning either.
There are people modifying RL's and there are younger buyers buying them. My friend is one of them. Sure, not anywhere near like the GS, but there is sime appeal to it.
From a fit and finish point I also am one that thinks the RL is better built. While my experience may only be limited to test drives and sitting in them in show rooms and car shows, the RL has a more refined fit and finish feel to it. I don't think that is a knock against the GS, as the Legen, and old RL has great fit and finish much better than other Honda/Acura cars. The new RL just took it up a notch.
While the after market supporst the GS mainly because it is a VIP platform in Japan, the RL does have some aftermarket support. Not as many vendors, but you can get more than just a spoiler and rims. You can get intakes, suspension, body kits. You don't have as many choices as a GS, but you can still modify it quite a bit if you wanted to.
After it is all said and done, I agree that the GS has much better public support. However, that doesn't mean one car is better than the other. There are many great cars that have poor sales numbers and many crappy cars with great sales numbers.
There are people modifying RL's and there are younger buyers buying them. My friend is one of them. Sure, not anywhere near like the GS, but there is sime appeal to it.
From a fit and finish point I also am one that thinks the RL is better built. While my experience may only be limited to test drives and sitting in them in show rooms and car shows, the RL has a more refined fit and finish feel to it. I don't think that is a knock against the GS, as the Legen, and old RL has great fit and finish much better than other Honda/Acura cars. The new RL just took it up a notch.
While the after market supporst the GS mainly because it is a VIP platform in Japan, the RL does have some aftermarket support. Not as many vendors, but you can get more than just a spoiler and rims. You can get intakes, suspension, body kits. You don't have as many choices as a GS, but you can still modify it quite a bit if you wanted to.
After it is all said and done, I agree that the GS has much better public support. However, that doesn't mean one car is better than the other. There are many great cars that have poor sales numbers and many crappy cars with great sales numbers.
The GS is the platform, the IS spun off it. The RL is a global based Accord platform. Clearly the Accord is a good car but I prefer my 50k sedan to be the basis for a platform with minimum sharing. That is a personal preference and one that BMW/Benz use as well.
01-28-07, 06:46 PM
#50
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The RL is not meant to attract young buyers especially ones who tint or put big bling bling chrome wheels and trim on their car and I am glad about that because they usaully look terrible and cheapen the look of the car. Just because a car attracts alot of people who do that does not mean it is a good car or better then most. People do that to Escalades and Navigators and old buicks and cadilacs and they look like crap, does not enhance the image. Alot of people modify their cars because they are unhappy with the handling, look, or performance. I personally have not seen any modified RLs on the road but guess what I have not seen a single modified 3rd Gen GS either, not even one with aftermarket rims. The majority of expensive nice cars like BMWs, Porsches, NSXs, Ferraris, Audis, Lambos, Lexus I have seen on the road have not been modified either-at least cosmetically. Most of the cars that I see that are modified are Civics, Accords, Integras, Maximas, 240sx, mustangs, cameros, probes, miatas, eclipses, and other fairly inexpensive cars that are predominantly what young people own.
Of course the RL is not going to sell as well as the GS or alot of its better received competition simply because the previous model was so luckluster and the original RL had no following and not many fans unlike the 2nd Gen GS which sold well and has a very good following. A good portion of 3rd Gen GS buyers are 2nd Gen GS owners. Also there are more engine and drivetrain choices for the GS where with the RL you only get one. Another reason is you can get a TL for 15K less that is quicker, gets better gas mileage, about the same size, with a more aggressive exterior and nice (although not really on the same league with the RL) interior. I never said the 3rd Gen GS was a bad car and I did recommend it and put it on my list. Just after being in and test driving both I felt the RL edged out the GS300. When people reply that the RL is just a fancy Accord or not even in the same league as the GS then it tells me either they have a bias against Acura and for their preferred brand and that they did not actually test both cars with an open mind.
Just because the new RL shares an Accord platform does not mean it is automatically not built as well if not better then a GS and does not mean it can't be a good sports sedan or loses out to the GS. The Accord has always been a good handling car and wins most comparisons because it offers a good blend of smooth ride and good handling and the RL was built to be a very good handling sports sedan which it is. I have not really read reviews of people gushing over the GS in the performance/handling department and I have read more about the RL being a very good handling car although them wanting more steering feel and horsepower. My second Gen GS maybe RWD and have a nice v-8 but it is also a pretty sloppy floaty handler and offers little driver feedback and you can certainly feel the weight of this car. It is certainly no sports sedan stock and that is why the second Gen forum is popular with people modifying the suspension to improve handling because they are not very satisfied with it stock. My parents 99TL and 03CL that share an Accord platform are much less floaty then my GS, handle better and offer more feedback for a better more involving sporty drive.
There may not be alot of enthusiasts buying the RL but enthusiasts are not really buying the GS either. People buying the GS are mainly buying it because they liked the last one, want a modern well built reliable luxury sedan, and want a Lexus badged car and the GS fits their needs, they are not buying it based on any high performance or sports car handling aspects. Enthusiasts are generally buying the 5 series or M35-M45, with a few going with the AMG benzes, S model Audi 4 doors.
As far as looks go I agree the RL is not setting the automotive world on fire with its looks but I still think it is a good looking car. Frankly I think in the looks department there is alot left to be desired with mid level Japan luxury sedans like the RL, new GS, M35. The GS is pretty bland too and looks alot like a Maxima or Altima, and I have personally witnessed a few people mistake the two cars. The 3rd Gen GS to me does not really look like an upscale luxury car like the 2nd Gen did especially from the rear and looks more like something that could be sold as a Toyota. Same goes for the M35 in that it does not really look that upscale. The 3rd Gen does look more modern then the 2nd Gen but I think the 2nd Gen has it beat hands down in the looks department especially with a spoiler.
Of course the RL is not going to sell as well as the GS or alot of its better received competition simply because the previous model was so luckluster and the original RL had no following and not many fans unlike the 2nd Gen GS which sold well and has a very good following. A good portion of 3rd Gen GS buyers are 2nd Gen GS owners. Also there are more engine and drivetrain choices for the GS where with the RL you only get one. Another reason is you can get a TL for 15K less that is quicker, gets better gas mileage, about the same size, with a more aggressive exterior and nice (although not really on the same league with the RL) interior. I never said the 3rd Gen GS was a bad car and I did recommend it and put it on my list. Just after being in and test driving both I felt the RL edged out the GS300. When people reply that the RL is just a fancy Accord or not even in the same league as the GS then it tells me either they have a bias against Acura and for their preferred brand and that they did not actually test both cars with an open mind.
Just because the new RL shares an Accord platform does not mean it is automatically not built as well if not better then a GS and does not mean it can't be a good sports sedan or loses out to the GS. The Accord has always been a good handling car and wins most comparisons because it offers a good blend of smooth ride and good handling and the RL was built to be a very good handling sports sedan which it is. I have not really read reviews of people gushing over the GS in the performance/handling department and I have read more about the RL being a very good handling car although them wanting more steering feel and horsepower. My second Gen GS maybe RWD and have a nice v-8 but it is also a pretty sloppy floaty handler and offers little driver feedback and you can certainly feel the weight of this car. It is certainly no sports sedan stock and that is why the second Gen forum is popular with people modifying the suspension to improve handling because they are not very satisfied with it stock. My parents 99TL and 03CL that share an Accord platform are much less floaty then my GS, handle better and offer more feedback for a better more involving sporty drive.
There may not be alot of enthusiasts buying the RL but enthusiasts are not really buying the GS either. People buying the GS are mainly buying it because they liked the last one, want a modern well built reliable luxury sedan, and want a Lexus badged car and the GS fits their needs, they are not buying it based on any high performance or sports car handling aspects. Enthusiasts are generally buying the 5 series or M35-M45, with a few going with the AMG benzes, S model Audi 4 doors.
As far as looks go I agree the RL is not setting the automotive world on fire with its looks but I still think it is a good looking car. Frankly I think in the looks department there is alot left to be desired with mid level Japan luxury sedans like the RL, new GS, M35. The GS is pretty bland too and looks alot like a Maxima or Altima, and I have personally witnessed a few people mistake the two cars. The 3rd Gen GS to me does not really look like an upscale luxury car like the 2nd Gen did especially from the rear and looks more like something that could be sold as a Toyota. Same goes for the M35 in that it does not really look that upscale. The 3rd Gen does look more modern then the 2nd Gen but I think the 2nd Gen has it beat hands down in the looks department especially with a spoiler.
01-28-07, 07:35 PM
#51
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Of course the IS350 is going to feel and be faster then the RL. The IS350 is the fastest sedan in its class. The IS350 is a smaller lighter car with more horsepower (306 vs 290) going to just the rear wheels instead of being channeled through an heavier power sapping all wheel drive system. The quickest times I have seen for an RL were 0-60 in 6.3 and 6.4 seconds which is pretty decent considering the weight, awd, and a v-6 putting out 290hp. The less expensive and lighter 6 speed TL is quicker then the RL with 5.6 second recorded 0-60 times. The GS and RL were not designed to be drag cars. The power in the RL is plenty as long as you are not expecting to be thrown back in your seat like you would when you floor it with a lighter rear wheel drive v-8 or a lighter highly tuned 2 wheel drive v-6 car like the IS350, TL, or G35.
01-28-07, 09:30 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
Nope, compare the specs and reviews of both cars and go and sit in one or take a test drive with an open mind and you will see the RL is just as nice if not a little nicer then the 3rd gen GS300 and 350. The RL offers a hell of alot of car for under 50K. There is not a world of difference between both cars and it is not like one is a clear winner or loser I just like the RL a little more. I especially like how everything including the NAV system comes standard in the RL like it should at this price and class of car. Both are great cars and are highly recommended.
01-29-07, 02:23 PM
#55
Nope, compare the specs and reviews of both cars and go and sit in one or take a test drive with an open mind and you will see the RL is just as nice if not a little nicer then the 3rd gen GS300 and 350. The RL offers a hell of alot of car for under 50K. There is not a world of difference between both cars and it is not like one is a clear winner or loser I just like the RL a little more. I especially like how everything including the NAV system comes standard in the RL like it should at this price and class of car. Both are great cars and are highly recommended.
for a V6 sedan of this size and weight.
Personally I'd buy a GS350 for 50K before I'd buy an RL for 40K. Not that
the RL is a bad car, but Acura wimped out and gave us worst in class old
man styling
01-29-07, 05:39 PM
#58
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01-29-07, 05:44 PM
#59
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Wrong, try again Have you seen the 2 forums. The RL forum is DEAD. No traffic. It simply did not and does not attract a young buyer. Period. For all its SH-AWD prowness (which is the best AWD system now) it is wrapped in such a bland looking car, enthusiasts stay away.
Look over here. The 3GS forum is active. Look at the modified thread. TONS of modified cars. On top of that the AFTERMARKET has totally supported the GS. The RL, you can get maybe a spoiler.
Have you seen the 2 forums. The RL forum is DEAD. No traffic. It simply did not and does not attract a young buyer. Period. For all its SH-AWD prowness (which is the best AWD system now) it is wrapped in such a bland looking car, enthusiasts stay away.Look over here. The 3GS forum is active. Look at the modified thread. TONS of modified cars. On top of that the AFTERMARKET has totally supported the GS. The RL, you can get maybe a spoiler.
The RL is terribly bland, and is FWD (SH-AWD is still FWD as far as I'm concerned). Those are the reasons why the RL is not as popular.
The GS I don't see as being an enthusiast's car either (or any luxury vehicle for that matter). No manual transmission, heavy curb weight, very isolated chassis. And as far as popularity, I see about as many GS's as I do RL's.
01-29-07, 05:48 PM
#60
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I wouldn't judge the popularity or desireability of a car based on how many people appear to "mod" it, or how many people hang out on its associated message board. Those are not relevant metrics.
The RL is terribly bland, and is FWD (SH-AWD is still FWD as far as I'm concerned). Those are the reasons why the RL is not as popular.
The GS I don't see as being an enthusiast's car either (or any luxury vehicle for that matter). No manual transmission, heavy curb weight, very isolated chassis. And as far as popularity, I see about as many GS's as I do RL's.
The RL is terribly bland, and is FWD (SH-AWD is still FWD as far as I'm concerned). Those are the reasons why the RL is not as popular.
The GS I don't see as being an enthusiast's car either (or any luxury vehicle for that matter). No manual transmission, heavy curb weight, very isolated chassis. And as far as popularity, I see about as many GS's as I do RL's.
As for as popularity, anyone can say they see just as many GSs as RL's. People can SAY they see more RL's than GSs!
We post every MONTH sales DATA that shows the GS sells nearly 3 times as much. Logic and conclusion, it is more popular, even if you are not smitten by it.
I don't see a bunch of new Camry's, but I know Toyota sells over 40k a month!