B4 you chip that 335.....
01-27-07, 02:23 PM
#16
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Manufacturers are smart to be able to detect engine mods and to void warranties because why should they fix engine damage from mods they don't authorize?
The days of modding an engine or in any mechanical, electronic or electrical way and keeping a warranty are numbered. Only a matter of time before the car keeps track of when the battery is disconnected, when a fuse is removed, when a wire is cut, etc.
The days of modding an engine or in any mechanical, electronic or electrical way and keeping a warranty are numbered. Only a matter of time before the car keeps track of when the battery is disconnected, when a fuse is removed, when a wire is cut, etc.
01-27-07, 02:50 PM
#17
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If the software gurus at BMW did their coding right and thought of a boost tuning change down the road, it would indeed be lights out for tuning.
If the car has a set boost value, and it exceeds it, it may throw a new value into a private memory location that only BMW has decoding for. Condition flags aren't that hard to setup.
Then from there until a tuner is fully capable of reading and writing in BMW's (im guessing proprietary) format, then you'd be SOL. There's a whole bevy of things the coders could have done to ensure that any deviation from stock at all would result in a failed permanent checksum.
If the car has a set boost value, and it exceeds it, it may throw a new value into a private memory location that only BMW has decoding for. Condition flags aren't that hard to setup.
Then from there until a tuner is fully capable of reading and writing in BMW's (im guessing proprietary) format, then you'd be SOL. There's a whole bevy of things the coders could have done to ensure that any deviation from stock at all would result in a failed permanent checksum.
01-27-07, 04:14 PM
#18
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Taken from a BMW dealership employee...(taken from VWvortex)
Quote »
I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them.
BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated.
To date, they have terminated 54 warranties.
Quote »
I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them.
BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated.
To date, they have terminated 54 warranties.
We will surely see more of this in upcoming months as it hits people on forums but IMO, very similar to how Mitsu was terminating warranties on Evo's when they found about people tracking/dragging them
lol, ftw!
Also, this makes DINAN look great as his products are warrentied.
lol, ftw!
Also, this makes DINAN look great as his products are warrentied.
This won't deter the real ballers. They are going to do it anyway. Other chickens like me would wait for the warranty to end then mod it or go with Dinan.
01-27-07, 05:08 PM
#19
They only void the engine warranty (if all this is true) which I think is very reasonable. This is very different from Mitsu who voids all warranty period if you track/drag the car.
This won't deter the real ballers. They are going to do it anyway. Other chickens like me would wait for the warranty to end then mod it or go with Dinan.
This won't deter the real ballers. They are going to do it anyway. Other chickens like me would wait for the warranty to end then mod it or go with Dinan.
01-27-07, 10:19 PM
#20
There is a difference between changing/flashing the ECU and using a Xede, which does not alter the ECU in any way. Luckily Xede's are available.
Besides, until I actually hear of an owner losing his warranty...well, it's only as good as the time it takes to type it. AFAIK the vishnu xede has been installed in quite a few cars and no one has reported any warranty issues.
Besides, until I actually hear of an owner losing his warranty...well, it's only as good as the time it takes to type it. AFAIK the vishnu xede has been installed in quite a few cars and no one has reported any warranty issues.
Unless the XEDE is specifically designed to intercept ALL signals being saved into memory; then it isn't going to help.
I understand your cautious approach... but all it takes is a little memory readout to say the boost, ignition timing, or fuel tuning went WAY out of factory normal specs. Using a XEDE isn't going to alter the datalogging; IF the car has that; which it'd be very easy to do.
01-28-07, 07:24 AM
#21
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I don't know enough about how the ECU of a car works to comment, all I can do is reference the guy who does.
Yes, what you quoted is indeed an issue when it comes to reflashing your ECU since doing so does alter the DME code. Even reflashing back to stock will leave traces of tampering. Fortunately, our approach does not modify the ECU in any way. Just the signal that come into and go out of the ECU. And all the signals that are recorded (those going into the ECU) are within normal operating parameters so that they wont raise any red flags if/when looked at.
But Zoeb2s had it right in the end, if you truly are concerned about your warranty above anything else, leave your car stock
Cheers,
shiv
But Zoeb2s had it right in the end, if you truly are concerned about your warranty above anything else, leave your car stock
Cheers,
shiv
01-28-07, 08:19 AM
#22
Wait until one of the more experienced Audi/VW ecu tuners come into this market.
many Audi / VW engines are tuned such as 1.8T, 2.0T, etc ... and they have developed methods to 'hide' the code changes from regular service checkups, and even have ways to program different modes, e.g. standard mode, 95ron, 100 ron mode!
many Audi / VW engines are tuned such as 1.8T, 2.0T, etc ... and they have developed methods to 'hide' the code changes from regular service checkups, and even have ways to program different modes, e.g. standard mode, 95ron, 100 ron mode!
01-28-07, 09:17 AM
#23
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Welcome to the world of FASTA. we've already replaced a rear turbo in a 335i and i think we've replaced a motor in another one. I think both of them were done under warranty.
Imo, Shiv@Vishnu has the best approach to modifying the 335i's boost and other settings on the car without have to reflash or encode the DME. Anytime the DME has been re-encoded it registers a new part number for the control unit which is visible to the BMW technican support guys whenever the FASTA data is sent over when dealing with a problem. Even if its been reflashed back to stock they can tell how many times the control unit has been programmed and if that is not in the vehicles history for the dealership, it has obviously been flashed elsewhere.
Imo, Shiv@Vishnu has the best approach to modifying the 335i's boost and other settings on the car without have to reflash or encode the DME. Anytime the DME has been re-encoded it registers a new part number for the control unit which is visible to the BMW technican support guys whenever the FASTA data is sent over when dealing with a problem. Even if its been reflashed back to stock they can tell how many times the control unit has been programmed and if that is not in the vehicles history for the dealership, it has obviously been flashed elsewhere.
01-28-07, 10:21 AM
#24
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Wait until one of the more experienced Audi/VW ecu tuners come into this market.
many Audi / VW engines are tuned such as 1.8T, 2.0T, etc ... and they have developed methods to 'hide' the code changes from regular service checkups, and even have ways to program different modes, e.g. standard mode, 95ron, 100 ron mode!
many Audi / VW engines are tuned such as 1.8T, 2.0T, etc ... and they have developed methods to 'hide' the code changes from regular service checkups, and even have ways to program different modes, e.g. standard mode, 95ron, 100 ron mode!
01-28-07, 12:58 PM
#29
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01-28-07, 03:45 PM
#30
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Manufacturers are smart to be able to detect engine mods and to void warranties because why should they fix engine damage from mods they don't authorize?
The days of modding an engine or in any mechanical, electronic or electrical way and keeping a warranty are numbered. Only a matter of time before the car keeps track of when the battery is disconnected, when a fuse is removed, when a wire is cut, etc.
The days of modding an engine or in any mechanical, electronic or electrical way and keeping a warranty are numbered. Only a matter of time before the car keeps track of when the battery is disconnected, when a fuse is removed, when a wire is cut, etc.
Besides all this - if you want to mod, be a man about it and accept responsibility for the results of your mods. BMW/Lexus/etc. did not sign up to sponsor your racing program just because you bought a car from them. I despise warranty fraud.