New BMW 7-series will come with 8-speed transmission
02-07-07, 06:03 AM
#61
GOod points. Again though, if people are going to bish and moan about 8 speeds then
1. dual climate control
2. biger and bigger wheels and tires
3. More and more pistons on calipers
4. Hid and LED headlights..
5. the useless hp/torque in so many cars.
Luxury is about EXCESS. This is excessive, thus it belongs.
1. dual climate control
2. biger and bigger wheels and tires
3. More and more pistons on calipers
4. Hid and LED headlights..
5. the useless hp/torque in so many cars.
Luxury is about EXCESS. This is excessive, thus it belongs.
I want some luxury amenities but I don't want ones I'll never use. Let's say... TVs in cars. I will never find a need for that. Therefore you'll never see me put more than one screen in a car, and that one screen will be for navigation/ICE. I will never watch movies or TV in my car because... well I'M DRIVING. Music is understandable in car because you can listen to tunes while you drive, you can't watch TV while you drive. Well you could but than I'd have to kill you.
I wouldn't buy a multi-million dollar house for the sake of having a multi-million dollar house. I guess that comes with having grown up not having lots of money. I'm still learning how to manage my money well. And I'm just starting to be able to actually keep a savings instead of pretty much living check to check.
Not all of us here bathe in money, I sure as hell don't. But all of us will have an opinion, regardless if we can or can't afford the car. I know what I do and do not like and what I do and do not need.
02-07-07, 06:47 AM
#62
interesting.... considering that 8 speed in LS got pretty good reviews from journalists, for being smooth, fast and great benefit in MPG, I really dont see what the problem is?
If you dont want the best in luxury, then you certainly dont have to buy luxury car that costs 70k-100k.
If you think 4 speed or 5 speed AT is fine, then you really need to look hard at cars such as Avalon which at 26k will satisfy everyone's need for comfy transportation.
Arguing that 90k luxury vehicle should have 5 speed AT is pointless. There are million of similar features that you can take out of LS, but then you end up in Avalon.
If you dont want the best in luxury, then you certainly dont have to buy luxury car that costs 70k-100k.
If you think 4 speed or 5 speed AT is fine, then you really need to look hard at cars such as Avalon which at 26k will satisfy everyone's need for comfy transportation.
Arguing that 90k luxury vehicle should have 5 speed AT is pointless. There are million of similar features that you can take out of LS, but then you end up in Avalon.
02-07-07, 06:48 AM
#63
GOod points. Again though, if people are going to bish and moan about 8 speeds then
1. dual climate control
2. biger and bigger wheels and tires
3. More and more pistons on calipers
4. Hid and LED headlights..
5. the useless hp/torque in so many cars.
Luxury is about EXCESS. This is excessive, thus it belongs.
1. dual climate control
2. biger and bigger wheels and tires
3. More and more pistons on calipers
4. Hid and LED headlights..
5. the useless hp/torque in so many cars.
Luxury is about EXCESS. This is excessive, thus it belongs.
All of that makes an luxury car... an luxury car.
02-07-07, 07:21 AM
#64
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02-07-07, 09:53 AM
#65
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Look at this thread; there are a bunch of reviews that show good stopping distances for the new LS.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=234405
Here is one review in particular:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
They achieved 60 - 0 mph stopping distance of 128 feet.
And then you have "reviews" from places like Car and Driver claiming they achieved 60 - 0 of 209 feet. Strange indeed.
Here is another review of the LS460L:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=119408
The achieved a stopping distance of 136 feet, yet claimed that was "dissapointing". For a car that weighs well over 4000lbs, I wouldn't say so.
02-07-07, 09:55 AM
#66
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It's pretty simple. There are pros and cons to more gears in a transmission, and at some point the pros involve increasingly diminished returns that are eventually outweighed by the cons.
Go back to the days of the glide 2-speed automatic. That thing took a relative eternity to shift from lock to lock and when it was inbetween locks you were effectively not accelerating at all. Imagine if you had made the glide into an 8-speed transmission. Your 0-60 would be drastically worse because of all the time it'd spend shifting, it would likely be extremely large (may not even fit under most cars) and heavy, overly complex, and the heat caused by constantly shifting would quickly kill it.
Oh, and it'd be expensive as all get-out.
Yes, that's an extreme example. And today's auto transmissions shift very quickly, never really fall out of a positive gain type state (though power input is still reduced while shifting), and advances have been made to allow transmissions to become smaller, lighter, less complex, less expensive to build, and less susceptible to heat. But again, if it were a 4 or 5 speed auto designed using the same resources and technology, it'd likely be even smaller, lighter, cheaper to build, and more reliable than the 8-speed with the new technology. And depending on the time it takes the transmission to shift between gears and the power curve of the engine, it really may not give any real performance benefit to move to an 8-speed.
Look at what dragsters are still using today. 2 speed autos. It keeps the weight down, keeps the reliability high, and more importantly than anything, keeps time/power-robbing shifts down to a minimum. Those motors just have so much power than even if the shifts were instant and it didn't add any weight or reliability issues, the performance gain they'd see from going from a 2-speed to, say, a 5-speed is extremely marginal.
Yes I know with Lexus and BMW it's more than just performance - it also gives the benefit of a small rpm to rpm gap between shifts, possibly fuel economy (depending on the change in effective final drive ratio), and let's face it, bragging rights. But those factors can still be outweighed by the negatives I mentioned earlier.
Go back to the days of the glide 2-speed automatic. That thing took a relative eternity to shift from lock to lock and when it was inbetween locks you were effectively not accelerating at all. Imagine if you had made the glide into an 8-speed transmission. Your 0-60 would be drastically worse because of all the time it'd spend shifting, it would likely be extremely large (may not even fit under most cars) and heavy, overly complex, and the heat caused by constantly shifting would quickly kill it.
Oh, and it'd be expensive as all get-out.
Yes, that's an extreme example. And today's auto transmissions shift very quickly, never really fall out of a positive gain type state (though power input is still reduced while shifting), and advances have been made to allow transmissions to become smaller, lighter, less complex, less expensive to build, and less susceptible to heat. But again, if it were a 4 or 5 speed auto designed using the same resources and technology, it'd likely be even smaller, lighter, cheaper to build, and more reliable than the 8-speed with the new technology. And depending on the time it takes the transmission to shift between gears and the power curve of the engine, it really may not give any real performance benefit to move to an 8-speed.
Look at what dragsters are still using today. 2 speed autos. It keeps the weight down, keeps the reliability high, and more importantly than anything, keeps time/power-robbing shifts down to a minimum. Those motors just have so much power than even if the shifts were instant and it didn't add any weight or reliability issues, the performance gain they'd see from going from a 2-speed to, say, a 5-speed is extremely marginal.
Yes I know with Lexus and BMW it's more than just performance - it also gives the benefit of a small rpm to rpm gap between shifts, possibly fuel economy (depending on the change in effective final drive ratio), and let's face it, bragging rights. But those factors can still be outweighed by the negatives I mentioned earlier.
02-07-07, 10:00 AM
#67
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Let me see here...
Guys on the internet think they know what is better than paid engineers for luxury marques. Yup that sounds right.
How can anyone argue over the benefits of more gears is beyond me.
Maybe you all should trade in your cars for 3 speed Plymouths of the 1950s...
Guys on the internet think they know what is better than paid engineers for luxury marques. Yup that sounds right.
How can anyone argue over the benefits of more gears is beyond me.
Maybe you all should trade in your cars for 3 speed Plymouths of the 1950s...
If engineers are working on a new transmission, and Toyota told them to make it lighter, stronger, faster shifting, and have a better gear ratio spread, what do you think goes through their mind? That's exactly what Toyota told the engineers for the new Lexus 8 speed.
And for people saying that we're getting into "too much gears", you forget how advanced today's transmissions are. *Both* the Benz 7 speed and the Lexus 8 speed have the ability to "jump" gears. Instead of shifting from 1st through 7th, or 1st through 8th, both trannies can "jump" several gears depending on the situation and the need. So the argument that we're getting into too much gears holds no water.
02-07-07, 11:04 AM
#68
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I call it marketing.
Those were some turbulent times! 
02-07-07, 12:44 PM
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GOod points. Again though, if people are going to bish and moan about 8 speeds then
1. dual climate control
2. biger and bigger wheels and tires
3. More and more pistons on calipers
4. Hid and LED headlights..
5. the useless hp/torque in so many cars.
Luxury is about EXCESS. This is excessive, thus it belongs.
1. dual climate control
2. biger and bigger wheels and tires
3. More and more pistons on calipers
4. Hid and LED headlights..
5. the useless hp/torque in so many cars.
Luxury is about EXCESS. This is excessive, thus it belongs.
02-07-07, 12:47 PM
#73
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02-07-07, 01:05 PM
#74
EV ftw!!!
02-07-07, 01:07 PM
#75
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In many ways, a $65K LS460 is better than those super expensive "Ultra luxury" cars. You would think these top cars would get everything first.