Interesting Talk With A Client: LS460L or S550.(long)
02-20-07, 08:41 AM
#151
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This pricing method is used by BMW too. They state with their new models that the base price has not gone up. This is true. The cost of options has and consequently, you will be hard pressed to find a base car on the lot.
The base price of the ES is quite low, however, they do not get the base model here in San Diego.
Does your dealer stock LS's at $61k?
The base price of the ES is quite low, however, they do not get the base model here in San Diego.
Does your dealer stock LS's at $61k?
02-20-07, 09:09 AM
#152
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Just wanted to share something which I am confused why they think this.
. They own Mercedes for the last 10 years and their lease is almost up(03 S500). They came in exploring the LS460L. At that time I had a special packaged LS460L Black/Black with Air Suspension. Came with Mark Levinson Stereo/Nav/Rear Seat Upgrade(not executive) and AIr Suspension which is IMPOSSIBLE to find in the Northeast region.
We test drove the car, they loved the power, handling and all the immenities that came along with it. They said it had everything what a Mercedes have. I was thinking it should have been the other way around. Anyway, the deal breaker was the ML STEREO. They said it sounded "tinny, and empty". In my head I was like "WTF?". They said they sat in a S550 and it sounded fantastic. I told them to come back with a CD of theirs instead of playing from the radio. They came back and we put a CD in and I adjusted the tremble, bass, etc.. .. I told them to listen carefully of all the DETAILS that the ML produces which no other factory car stereo can do. They looked impressed, BUT my feeling was that they CAN'T accept the fact that a japanese car might JUST might be better than a car brand that they owned for 10 years. After couple days they decided on the S550 because they felt it was better quality.
Don't get me wrong, WHAT DO THEY FIND BETTER? I never listened to the stereo in a S550 but come on, if it is better, HOW MUCH better can it possibly be?! But hey, its their money, and I tried... but it makes me wonder..
Hey some people are very loyal to Mercedes and has it ENGRAINED in their heads that a Japanese maker cannot be in the same level as Germans. I am not bashing Mercedes NOR their opinions, but lets face it, we are right up there EASILY.
. They own Mercedes for the last 10 years and their lease is almost up(03 S500). They came in exploring the LS460L. At that time I had a special packaged LS460L Black/Black with Air Suspension. Came with Mark Levinson Stereo/Nav/Rear Seat Upgrade(not executive) and AIr Suspension which is IMPOSSIBLE to find in the Northeast region.
We test drove the car, they loved the power, handling and all the immenities that came along with it. They said it had everything what a Mercedes have. I was thinking it should have been the other way around. Anyway, the deal breaker was the ML STEREO. They said it sounded "tinny, and empty". In my head I was like "WTF?". They said they sat in a S550 and it sounded fantastic. I told them to come back with a CD of theirs instead of playing from the radio. They came back and we put a CD in and I adjusted the tremble, bass, etc.. .. I told them to listen carefully of all the DETAILS that the ML produces which no other factory car stereo can do. They looked impressed, BUT my feeling was that they CAN'T accept the fact that a japanese car might JUST might be better than a car brand that they owned for 10 years. After couple days they decided on the S550 because they felt it was better quality.
Don't get me wrong, WHAT DO THEY FIND BETTER? I never listened to the stereo in a S550 but come on, if it is better, HOW MUCH better can it possibly be?! But hey, its their money, and I tried... but it makes me wonder..
Hey some people are very loyal to Mercedes and has it ENGRAINED in their heads that a Japanese maker cannot be in the same level as Germans. I am not bashing Mercedes NOR their opinions, but lets face it, we are right up there EASILY.
02-20-07, 12:03 PM
#153
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Count me in as one of the people who believes that these people could not be sold on a Lexus vehicle no matter how good the product or the salesperson might be.
02-20-07, 12:14 PM
#154
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02-20-07, 12:21 PM
#155
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=265981
Average transaction price:
Audi A8: ~$81,000
LS 460 L: ~$82,000
7-series: ~$84,000
S550: ~$94,000
02-20-07, 12:55 PM
#156
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Via BusinessWeek and stevekil in this thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=265981
Average transaction price:
Audi A8: ~$81,000
LS 460 L: ~$82,000
7-series: ~$84,000
S550: ~$94,000
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=265981
Average transaction price:
Audi A8: ~$81,000
LS 460 L: ~$82,000
7-series: ~$84,000
S550: ~$94,000
For whatever reason, I've always accorded prestige to the luxo barges in this order:
1. S-class
2. 7-series
3a. A8
3b. XJ
4. LS
5. Phaeton
6. Q45
I wonder if I'd subconsciously been factoring in pricing.
02-20-07, 02:36 PM
#157
The fam had a Q45 before we bought an A8L a few months ago, and in all honesty it wasn't a bad car, it just wasn't a very good car at anything in particular. A8 is absolutely awesome and gorgeous. I love it. They might have bought an S550 but wasn't a fan of the new styling, I much prefer the mid 90s body. We just had no interest in the LS. To me the car evokes no emotion or passion, that and I think the A8 is the best looking of the flagships at the moment.
02-20-07, 03:04 PM
#158
Super Moderator
People want what they want.
I still remember little snippets from my 90 325ic, my parents Jag XJ6, our 190Es and even way back an 83 Accord and a 79 Nova. I can't say Lexus is perfect, but for some people a few things will stick out in their minds and if they don't see it, they won't buy it.
I remember the day we bought that 90 325ic and actually we had visited Lexus of Kendall (in Miami) in their used car lot, but the salesman actually almost got us to get an E300, however something at the time for whatever reason was missing and we settled on the 325ic that turned out to be a very good little car with almost no trouble, even after modifications.
I also recall my godfather way back in the early 90 test driving Acura, Lexus and Infiniti and each time the salesman would say something like, "drives just like a (Benz or BMW)", but my godfather didn't think so.
For me, I like Lexus and see myself getting an IS in the future to sit next to my RX. Would I consider a German vehicle...probably not.
I still remember little snippets from my 90 325ic, my parents Jag XJ6, our 190Es and even way back an 83 Accord and a 79 Nova. I can't say Lexus is perfect, but for some people a few things will stick out in their minds and if they don't see it, they won't buy it.
I remember the day we bought that 90 325ic and actually we had visited Lexus of Kendall (in Miami) in their used car lot, but the salesman actually almost got us to get an E300, however something at the time for whatever reason was missing and we settled on the 325ic that turned out to be a very good little car with almost no trouble, even after modifications.
I also recall my godfather way back in the early 90 test driving Acura, Lexus and Infiniti and each time the salesman would say something like, "drives just like a (Benz or BMW)", but my godfather didn't think so.
For me, I like Lexus and see myself getting an IS in the future to sit next to my RX. Would I consider a German vehicle...probably not.
02-20-07, 03:05 PM
#159
People please don't respond to the anti-Lexus propoganda. The results clearly show the LS was the best seller in the segment up until 2005 I think.( I will be happy to post the sales links tonight)
And guess what the arguement is then? Oh, the LS has a cheaper price, so it will sell more. So you can't win for losing.
People cut up and chew out and twist the numbers every way possible to make Lexus look bad when it looks BAD to try.
The brand is the best selling in the USA since 2000.
The brand in ony 17 years is the 4th best selling luxury brand IN THE WORLD. in SEVENTEEN years.
The brand is always competative in any class they compete in.
The brand is clearly the quality/reliablity winner.
The brand continues to LEARN and EXPAND, with the IS-F line coming that the anti-Lexus will complain about anyway.
THE BRAND IS NOT PERFECT AND MAY NOT BE FOR YOU!!
It is BEYOND me how we cannot appreciate what a Japanese brand has done in such small time with no prior experience and CLEARLY there is SPACE for everyone. BMW and Benz sales are solid.
You can say Lexus has no soul, Lexus is boring, Lexus looks alike, Lexus is slow, Lexus is SUVs only, Lexus is sterile.
And CLEARLY, Lexus hit the NAIL ON THE HEAD b/c according to CAR magazine (feb 07) the brand EVERY EUROPEAN CEO worries about....
Is Lexus
And guess what the arguement is then? Oh, the LS has a cheaper price, so it will sell more. So you can't win for losing.
People cut up and chew out and twist the numbers every way possible to make Lexus look bad when it looks BAD to try.
The brand is the best selling in the USA since 2000.
The brand in ony 17 years is the 4th best selling luxury brand IN THE WORLD. in SEVENTEEN years.
The brand is always competative in any class they compete in.
The brand is clearly the quality/reliablity winner.
The brand continues to LEARN and EXPAND, with the IS-F line coming that the anti-Lexus will complain about anyway.
THE BRAND IS NOT PERFECT AND MAY NOT BE FOR YOU!!
It is BEYOND me how we cannot appreciate what a Japanese brand has done in such small time with no prior experience and CLEARLY there is SPACE for everyone. BMW and Benz sales are solid.
You can say Lexus has no soul, Lexus is boring, Lexus looks alike, Lexus is slow, Lexus is SUVs only, Lexus is sterile.
And CLEARLY, Lexus hit the NAIL ON THE HEAD b/c according to CAR magazine (feb 07) the brand EVERY EUROPEAN CEO worries about....
Is Lexus
BTW, You want to talk about 05 stats.
We can talk about that too.
Lexus sold between 1600 to 1800 a month (save december in which is sold over 2300) LS 430 in 2005.
BMW sold between 1500 to 1800 a month for 2005. (except september in which BMW factory shut down for entire month in august for summer vacation).
Mercedes S-class took a nose dive in late 2005 due to pending release of W221. But prior to the W221 release, it was selling on average 2400 car a month.
In other words, LS has not outsold S c-lass in any year. It has outsold BMW 7 in 2005. Not sure about 2004 data.
Lexus is biggest selling luxury brand- that is true. When you sell over 12k a month on SUV, in which your competition sell less than half of that.
Take Dec 06 for example
BMW sold 24,535 cars (3,5,7,6,z)
Lexus sold 20,913 cars
MB sold 19325 cars
Lexus sold 16322 trucks/SUV
BMW sold 6410 SUV
Mercedes sold 8790 SUV
Lexus was clearly a quality winner in this segment, no one is doubting that.
But the quality has been slipping.
1SICKLEX- so are you stating that the oil leak on the 3.5L V6 does not exist? The self-destructing 6 speed automatic does not exist.
BMW has tons of problem with electronics, such as failed steering angle sensor, lousy software. But you rarely see a wild spread problem such as oil leak or transmission self-destructing. I think you knock on BMW quality way too much without really taking a deep look into it.
Mercedes- has taken a huge step backward on quality since 1996. But the new S is actually quiet good.
A car is only a car. You are defending lexus way too much and knocking others.
Until the IS-F arrives and people start to drive it. You can't claim that the complain about lexus being souless will go away. BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT WILL HANDLE. HP IS NOT EVERYTHING.
Also in response to your post on the 3rd gen GS forum. You were knocking BMW selling more 5 series because it have entry level 525i. And you are turning this argument around on the LS.
FYI- 525i cost more than GS350 with same options. Depends on how you load up with option, the 525i will cost more than a base GS430. People still choose the weaker 525i over the similar priced GS350.
That my friend based on your argument should state that consumer prefer 5 series more even with lower content, power, and higher sticker price.
02-20-07, 03:24 PM
#160
How about looking up all the sales numbers for the years before '06? Lexus introduced the new LS about a year before release which naturally slowed sales and therefore production of the outgoing LS. Everyone wanted to wait for the new LS. You posted sales of the only period in about 5 years that the LS sold less.
The LS has never outsold the S on yearly basis until late 2005, when W221 was announced to be coming and W220 took a dive. So you can make the same comment on the S-class.
The 7 took a nose dive in early 2005, because of refresh (which debuted in 3/05 as 2006 model). Hmm. If you want to make a statement like this. Then everything needs to be taken into consideration.
The ES and IS did no damage to the 3 series. The GS also did no damage to the 5 series. What it did, was take away C-class and E-class sales.
02-20-07, 03:28 PM
#161
^^^
Your BIAS is dripping...Your bias is so strong it blinds you to the facts. LS outsold S-class on a yearly basis in the US 2003, 2004, 2005...etc. ADMIT IT, you're WRONG.
Lexus LS
2003-23,895
Mercedes Benz S class
2003-22,940
Lexus LS
2004-32,272
Mercedes Benz S class
2004-20,460
Lexus LS
2005-26,043
Mercedes Benz S class
2005-16,036
Seriously you have such a pro-BMW bias, masked in a false Lexus improvement tone, it's ridiculous. I'm not wasting any more time on your partisan attacks. And looks like you didn't take the time to read the information ISICKLEX posted, and I have listed here.
Your BIAS is dripping...Your bias is so strong it blinds you to the facts. LS outsold S-class on a yearly basis in the US 2003, 2004, 2005...etc. ADMIT IT, you're WRONG.
Lexus LS
2003-23,895
Mercedes Benz S class
2003-22,940
Lexus LS
2004-32,272
Mercedes Benz S class
2004-20,460
Lexus LS
2005-26,043
Mercedes Benz S class
2005-16,036
Seriously you have such a pro-BMW bias, masked in a false Lexus improvement tone, it's ridiculous. I'm not wasting any more time on your partisan attacks. And looks like you didn't take the time to read the information ISICKLEX posted, and I have listed here.
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