Interesting Talk With A Client: LS460L or S550.(long)
02-19-07, 08:31 AM
#122
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They're still great, but need to step it up. I know some say well their sales keep going up. Well so do Hyundai's but that doesn't make them luxurious. You can win a battle (current sales) and lose a war (long term image). I'm still not sure Lexus knows what it wants to be in 5 years.
02-19-07, 08:31 AM
#123
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They're still great, but need to step it up. I know some say well their sales keep going up. Well so do Hyundai's but that doesn't make them luxurious. You can win a battle (current sales) and lose a war (long term image). I'm still not sure Lexus knows what it wants to be in 5 years.
02-19-07, 11:36 AM
#124
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It's not that MB's and Bimmers are hard to tell apart, they certainly look different, just like Lexii, however they are all so similar that unless you follow the brand closely, you wont be able to tell which one is which. Take these caption off from the CLK and SL, and 3 and 5 series, and I wont be able to tell which one is which.
02-19-07, 11:42 AM
#125
Oh, absolutely, but that's exactly why I do not like the new Lexus line-up. This new L-finesse styling screwed the whole model range up, and I much prefer the older lineup when each model had its own character and couldn't be confused with anything else.
02-19-07, 12:14 PM
#126
Not sure if this is true. Their volume has gone up enormously too, so the total # of problems even at the same quality level will go up enormously too. Now *perceived* quality is another matter. My perception of the original ES interior was that it was worlds better in quality than today's with the giant plastic lollipop oval dash weirdness, but quality is different than 'luxuriousness' or something. Even a very cheap car can be very high quality. Won't be fancy, but can be very high quality. Conversely, we know very very fancy cars can be a turd ball from a quality perspective. But there's no doubt at all about the obvious cost reductions that have occurred in Lexus models over the years.
The new 6 speed automatic is trouble some for Toyota. The oil leak on the new 3.5L V6 is also an issue. You never expect to see this from any Toyota/Lexus 10 years ago.
[QUOTE=bitkahuna;2433795]
Not quite with you here either. I mean yes, they're boring, but Lexus goes a bit beyond bland boring (in the LS in particular) by going toward a serene low stress driving experience that is far beyond any Toyota model sold in the U.S. at least. Lights, wipers, on/off by themselves, very sophisticated climate control (the new LS system might be the world's best), now it parks itself (sort of
), that's the focus - a driving experience relieving the driver of those annoying things most people have to do to operate a vehicle! One less thing to think about. It may be boring to you, but to a busy person they're enormously grateful to have this magic carpet. 
[/quote[Everyone has a difference of opinion. But i think this approach is making entire driving experience like operating an appliance.
).Do we really need automatic parallel parking? Seriously speaking, if you can't park a car by yourself, you shouldn't be driving.
02-19-07, 03:59 PM
#127
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Yeah, about a hundred something posts ago this thread was about the difference in audio sound between the LS460 and S550. It went into the usual debates that are talked about over and over again between companies.
Nevertheless, it's always interesting.
So why do people want so passionately for Lexus to change their driving charactoristics or styling or whatever. It's almost like some of you don't want Lexus to be Lexus. Lexus is not BMW. They are not Mercedes. GOOD!
Do we want our choice of cars diminished and have them all be alike because of what one person wants them to be? I don't.
The LS460 is exactly what it is intended to be by LEXUS. No, it's not for everyone, but in the end it proves to be chosen by more people than the S-class or 7-series as it consistantly sells more.
I'm very excited about what Lexus is today and am glad that they are not a copycat company trying to be exactly like their German competition.
Nevertheless, it's always interesting.
So why do people want so passionately for Lexus to change their driving charactoristics or styling or whatever. It's almost like some of you don't want Lexus to be Lexus. Lexus is not BMW. They are not Mercedes. GOOD!
Do we want our choice of cars diminished and have them all be alike because of what one person wants them to be? I don't.
The LS460 is exactly what it is intended to be by LEXUS. No, it's not for everyone, but in the end it proves to be chosen by more people than the S-class or 7-series as it consistantly sells more.
I'm very excited about what Lexus is today and am glad that they are not a copycat company trying to be exactly like their German competition.
02-19-07, 04:58 PM
#128
It's not so much as us wanting Lexus not to be Lexus, it's others trying to claim that Lexus is more than what Lexus aims to be such as folks comparing the LS600lh to the S600.
Yes, it can be done, but the S600 feels like a more solid car (if the LS460 is any indicator), has more street cred, has a much more powerful engine and a few other small things. The LS600lh just feels like too much hype for not a lot of return (although it's a DAMN nice car).
Yes, it can be done, but the S600 feels like a more solid car (if the LS460 is any indicator), has more street cred, has a much more powerful engine and a few other small things. The LS600lh just feels like too much hype for not a lot of return (although it's a DAMN nice car).
02-19-07, 05:05 PM
#129
The LS460 is exactly what it is intended to be by LEXUS. No, it's not for everyone, but in the end it proves to be chosen by more people than the S-class or 7-series as it consistantly sells more.
I'm very excited about what Lexus is today and am glad that they are not a copycat company trying to be exactly like their German competition.
I'm very excited about what Lexus is today and am glad that they are not a copycat company trying to be exactly like their German competition.
Does LS really out sells the 7 and S-class consistently?
LS 7 S
jan 06 1190 1466 923
feb 06 1015 1428 3360
mar 06 1341 1970 3335
apr 06 1071 1624 3033
may 06 1085 1598 2526
jun 06 1014 1437 2407
jul 06 971 1308 2233
aug 06 1386 1395 2427
sep 06 898 1015 2357
oct 06 2097 1772 2518
nov 06 2613 1206 2780
dec 06 3863 1574 2987
The number don't lie. Lexus sales went up significantly with introduction of brand new LS in october 06. Whether LS can sustain this high run rate it yet to be determine. But fair to say, the IS and ES did not keep their original hot selling pace 6 months to a year after introduction. The LS once the new car effect goes away, will not consistently outsell the 7 or the S.
The 7 has been around since 2002. The fact is that it has done consistently okay despite the launch of the new LS. The S isn't doing too shabby either.
Keep in mind, Lexus only outsold BMW due to RX, GX, and LX. On the car side of business, BMW actually outsold lexus.
The combination of ES and IS has done nothing against BMW 3 series sales. The ES is a year newer than E90. And the IS has one year of HP advantage over E90. Still BMW trounces IS and ES combined in this catergory.
The number is always outthere is you care to search. The fact of matter is that LS does not outsell the 7 nor the S. If you want to make the comment based on 3 months sales of a brand new car, go ahead. We can always revisit the issue in 9 months when new car effect wears out.
02-19-07, 05:30 PM
#130
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People please don't respond to the anti-Lexus propoganda. The results clearly show the LS was the best seller in the segment up until 2005 I think.( I will be happy to post the sales links tonight)
And guess what the arguement is then? Oh, the LS has a cheaper price, so it will sell more. So you can't win for losing.
People cut up and chew out and twist the numbers every way possible to make Lexus look bad when it looks BAD to try.
The brand is the best selling in the USA since 2000.
The brand in ony 17 years is the 4th best selling luxury brand IN THE WORLD. in SEVENTEEN years.
The brand is always competative in any class they compete in.
The brand is clearly the quality/reliablity winner.
The brand continues to LEARN and EXPAND, with the IS-F line coming that the anti-Lexus will complain about anyway.
THE BRAND IS NOT PERFECT AND MAY NOT BE FOR YOU!!
It is BEYOND me how we cannot appreciate what a Japanese brand has done in such small time with no prior experience and CLEARLY there is SPACE for everyone. BMW and Benz sales are solid.
You can say Lexus has no soul, Lexus is boring, Lexus looks alike, Lexus is slow, Lexus is SUVs only, Lexus is sterile.
And CLEARLY, Lexus hit the NAIL ON THE HEAD b/c according to CAR magazine (feb 07) the brand EVERY EUROPEAN CEO worries about....
Is Lexus
And guess what the arguement is then? Oh, the LS has a cheaper price, so it will sell more. So you can't win for losing.
People cut up and chew out and twist the numbers every way possible to make Lexus look bad when it looks BAD to try.
The brand is the best selling in the USA since 2000.
The brand in ony 17 years is the 4th best selling luxury brand IN THE WORLD. in SEVENTEEN years.
The brand is always competative in any class they compete in.
The brand is clearly the quality/reliablity winner.
The brand continues to LEARN and EXPAND, with the IS-F line coming that the anti-Lexus will complain about anyway.
THE BRAND IS NOT PERFECT AND MAY NOT BE FOR YOU!!
It is BEYOND me how we cannot appreciate what a Japanese brand has done in such small time with no prior experience and CLEARLY there is SPACE for everyone. BMW and Benz sales are solid.
You can say Lexus has no soul, Lexus is boring, Lexus looks alike, Lexus is slow, Lexus is SUVs only, Lexus is sterile.
And CLEARLY, Lexus hit the NAIL ON THE HEAD b/c according to CAR magazine (feb 07) the brand EVERY EUROPEAN CEO worries about....
Is Lexus
02-19-07, 06:19 PM
#131
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really?
Does LS really out sells the 7 and S-class consistently?
LS 7 S
jan 06 1190 1466 923
feb 06 1015 1428 3360
mar 06 1341 1970 3335
apr 06 1071 1624 3033
may 06 1085 1598 2526
jun 06 1014 1437 2407
jul 06 971 1308 2233
aug 06 1386 1395 2427
sep 06 898 1015 2357
oct 06 2097 1772 2518
nov 06 2613 1206 2780
dec 06 3863 1574 2987
The number don't lie. Lexus sales went up significantly with introduction of brand new LS in october 06. Whether LS can sustain this high run rate it yet to be determine. But fair to say, the IS and ES did not keep their original hot selling pace 6 months to a year after introduction. The LS once the new car effect goes away, will not consistently outsell the 7 or the S.
The 7 has been around since 2002. The fact is that it has done consistently okay despite the launch of the new LS. The S isn't doing too shabby either.
Keep in mind, Lexus only outsold BMW due to RX, GX, and LX. On the car side of business, BMW actually outsold lexus.
The combination of ES and IS has done nothing against BMW 3 series sales. The ES is a year newer than E90. And the IS has one year of HP advantage over E90. Still BMW trounces IS and ES combined in this catergory.
The number is always outthere is you care to search. The fact of matter is that LS does not outsell the 7 nor the S. If you want to make the comment based on 3 months sales of a brand new car, go ahead. We can always revisit the issue in 9 months when new car effect wears out.
Does LS really out sells the 7 and S-class consistently?
LS 7 S
jan 06 1190 1466 923
feb 06 1015 1428 3360
mar 06 1341 1970 3335
apr 06 1071 1624 3033
may 06 1085 1598 2526
jun 06 1014 1437 2407
jul 06 971 1308 2233
aug 06 1386 1395 2427
sep 06 898 1015 2357
oct 06 2097 1772 2518
nov 06 2613 1206 2780
dec 06 3863 1574 2987
The number don't lie. Lexus sales went up significantly with introduction of brand new LS in october 06. Whether LS can sustain this high run rate it yet to be determine. But fair to say, the IS and ES did not keep their original hot selling pace 6 months to a year after introduction. The LS once the new car effect goes away, will not consistently outsell the 7 or the S.
The 7 has been around since 2002. The fact is that it has done consistently okay despite the launch of the new LS. The S isn't doing too shabby either.
Keep in mind, Lexus only outsold BMW due to RX, GX, and LX. On the car side of business, BMW actually outsold lexus.
The combination of ES and IS has done nothing against BMW 3 series sales. The ES is a year newer than E90. And the IS has one year of HP advantage over E90. Still BMW trounces IS and ES combined in this catergory.
The number is always outthere is you care to search. The fact of matter is that LS does not outsell the 7 nor the S. If you want to make the comment based on 3 months sales of a brand new car, go ahead. We can always revisit the issue in 9 months when new car effect wears out.
How about looking up all the sales numbers for the years before '06? Lexus introduced the new LS about a year before release which naturally slowed sales and therefore production of the outgoing LS. Everyone wanted to wait for the new LS. You posted sales of the only period in about 5 years that the LS sold less.
02-19-07, 06:28 PM
#132
LOL. I laugh at people that try to say one car is better than another, or say one brand is better than another with authority or with objectivity behind them.
At least when I make my posts I say it's according to me, and I'm quite sure that others probably see it differently.
When you've driven the every and LS400 (both generations) alongside the W220 and W221 S-Class alongside the LS430 then come to the table and talk about which car caters more correctly to it's audience.
I'm just anxious about the LS600lh, I may not like it, I might love it, but I think as long as I can get over the fact that it's not a beast in bed it's going to be one helluva car.
btw-sales numbers mean nothing. last time i checked we're buying cars, not stock in a company.
1sicklex - mad props. good way of summarizing lexus
At least when I make my posts I say it's according to me, and I'm quite sure that others probably see it differently.
When you've driven the every and LS400 (both generations) alongside the W220 and W221 S-Class alongside the LS430 then come to the table and talk about which car caters more correctly to it's audience.
I'm just anxious about the LS600lh, I may not like it, I might love it, but I think as long as I can get over the fact that it's not a beast in bed it's going to be one helluva car.
btw-sales numbers mean nothing. last time i checked we're buying cars, not stock in a company.
1sicklex - mad props. good way of summarizing lexus
02-19-07, 06:45 PM
#133
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A good indication is comparing the 2 models for last month when both are equally as new.
January '07 sales:
LS = 3,006
S = 2,078
You posted Dec '06:
LS = 3,863
S = 2,987
The S-class doesn't even come close to LS sales. It shows what America prefers, so why do people ask that it be more like a Benz?
January '07 sales:
LS = 3,006
S = 2,078
You posted Dec '06:
LS = 3,863
S = 2,987
The S-class doesn't even come close to LS sales. It shows what America prefers, so why do people ask that it be more like a Benz?
02-19-07, 06:51 PM
#134
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last time I heard the word propoganda, I was playing either Call of Duty for Battle of Vietnam. .
I thought it was a good thread and discussion . Some replies were informative and some other were purely subjective and based on one person opinion is by no mean a fact. If you have to defend every "negative" post about Lexus, it can be very exhausting.
. I thought it was a good thread and discussion . Some replies were informative and some other were purely subjective and based on one person opinion is by no mean a fact. If you have to defend every "negative" post about Lexus, it can be very exhausting.
02-19-07, 06:52 PM
#135
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I don't put to much into sales but they are a good indication to show what the buying public prefers. They kinda act like votes. In January:
LS = 3,006 votes
S = 2,078 votes
LS wins the election!
But somehow people keep saying the S is "better" and that this is the type of car more people want.
