Consumer Reports Jan 07. Rav4 beats X3/RDX/FX35....
02-18-07, 10:06 AM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
And they can't understand why others don't 'see' it. 
02-18-07, 10:20 AM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I have driven an X3. I'm not bashing it. It was fun for an SUV (though the interior and ride quality was not nearly as nice as the RDX in my opinion), but it absolutely will not outhandle a comparable 3-series sedan or coupe. That's all there is to it - magazine race all you want with numbers that suit your desired result, but the fact is you're proud of the X3 because you own it and that's why you're borderline delusional here with some of your claims. Until you take your X3 out to a track and beat a similar year and motor 3-series with a comparably skilled driver, you're just magazine racing, which of course the rest of us are too, but you have to admit your claims go against basic logic, that the X3 SUV would outperform the very car which it is a heavier lifted version of.
It's the best handling terrain I've ever seen. Anyway, a guy who used to be busy on CL drove his stock *RX300* through the dragon along with the highly modded IS, GSes and Porsches, Miatas, S2000s, etc. We're not sure how he went so fast, and some noticed that he almost went down into a ravine a couple of times 
but it did amazingly well.A lot is down to driver ability too and knowing the limits of a vehicle. I watched an old beat up 525i go through an autocross course screeching the entire way with more lean than the Titanic, but the driver knew exactly how far he could roll the suspension in turns and got a GREAT time. Then I saw a Caterham 7 go through and the guy didn't brake once and was flat as a pancake.
An X3's handling is going to feel GOOD by any standards, because BMW makes 'em that way, and it's not just about skid pad numbers, it's brakes, steering, throttle response, gearing, weight balance, intrusiveness of stability control
, and of course, the driver. 
I drove an X5 with sport package one time and its handling clearly was greater than my ability to exploit it. It would lean some, and of course is taller than a sedan, but that sucker would hang on very well, and it would be ME that backed off, not the car.
My problem with the original X3 is that I didn't care much for the looks in or out, but then I don't like the 5, or the 7 either. They've 'freshened' the X3 some recently, which is a good thing. But regardless of how they look, BMWs still ALL drive GREAT in their categories. It's certainly not just a numbers comparison.
02-18-07, 10:31 AM
#64
Many of the naysayers are not familiar with the BMW X-drive system and how it plays a role in handeling.. skidpad numbers aside, the choir needs to vist some dealerships, and drive these vehicles instead of getting pudgy, reading magazines, and dreaming about cars This vehicle does it for me considering the nasty weather NYC encountered to date. In the dry, this vehicle feels more stable and controlled than my GS400 with Bilstein Coilovers on the twisty Jackie Robinson Parkway in NYC. Sure M3, M5, will out do the x3 in other categories. But, i am more than pleased with my decison in buying this vehicle. It suits my needs at this time.. No regrets.. When I am ready and in the market for a rush, I can shell out the doe for a 335.
This vehicle does it for me considering the nasty weather NYC encountered to date. In the dry, this vehicle feels more stable and controlled than my GS400 with Bilstein Coilovers on the twisty Jackie Robinson Parkway in NYC. Sure M3, M5, will out do the x3 in other categories. But, i am more than pleased with my decison in buying this vehicle. It suits my needs at this time.. No regrets.. When I am ready and in the market for a rush, I can shell out the doe for a 335.
02-18-07, 11:21 AM
#67
BMW CCA had this to say about the Consumer Reports issue..
http://www.bmwcca.org/node/6215
Consumer Reports knocks BMW X3 over reliability
BMW News
Dec. 6, 2006
BMW’s X3 is the second-best sporty SUV but worse-than-average predicted reliability keeps it from being recommended by Consumer Reports.
BMW’s X3 is the second-best sporty SUV, says Consumer Reports, but it’s not recommended. “While the X3 performed well in our testing, its predicted reliability has dropped to worse than average,” CR says in its January 2007 issue. Among six sporty SUVs, CR rates them in this order: Toyota RAV4, BMW X3, Nissan Murano SL, Acura RDX, Infiniti FX35, and Mazda CX-7 Grand Touring. All are check-rated excepted the BMW and Mazda (which is too new to have reliability scores yet).
Consumer Reports said it liked the X3’s “agility, steering, braking, fit and finish, and controls,” but not the “ride, price, premium fuel, and touchy throttle.” The magazine noted that while “previous X3s had a punishing ride … this one is still choppy, but more tolerable.”
The magazine also reviewed off-road SUVs and check-rated the Nissan Xterra S, Kia Sorrento LX, and Jeep Liberty Sport V6. It warned that the fourth-rated Toyota FJ Cruiser had handling problems, including lifting both inside wheels on an emergency handling simulation before stability control intervened. The Hummer H3, the only tested vehicle with a much-worse-than-average predicted reliability was fifth and the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara was sixth.
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I have been driving my new
Submitted by 364450 on December 15, 2006 - 8:58am.
I have been driving my new 2007 X3 3.0si for something like 100+ miles now and I think the Consumer Report testers need to awake from their comas. These are not high performance oriented auto people. What they referred to as touchy throttle is in my view exceptional, immediate throttle response--even better than the original N52 255 HP engine in the 530i and 330i. The power delivery is incredible. I have been very gentle with the throttle depressing it no more than about 1/4 of an inch during the break in period and keep RPMs well under 5000 rpm except for a few short light throttle breaks when I have had to pass something.
While I havn't driven the competitive small SUVs, my experience with some of the Japanese vehicles is such that I seriously doubt the Acura is on the same planet with this BMW in handling precision and competence. I am still totally amazed the way this tall vehicle takes turns and I have to remind myself it's not 530i in the corners.
Finally, if you look closely at the reliability scores for the most recent X3 CR had data on, the 2006,it received high marks in every area other than the radio in terms of reliability. Yet the authors of the test report rated it below average in predicted reliability--this despite the fact that it now has basically the same drivetrain and engine as the highly rated 530xi and 330xi. Is this incompetence, stupidity or are the Japanese making contributions to the author's retirement funds?
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I've had my X3 2.5i since
Submitted by A305288mike on December 18, 2006 - 2:35pm.
I've had my X3 2.5i since new in 04 and with 40K on the odometer I can only assume that it's now vogue for auto testers to pan BMW products whenever they can. Either that, or these guys just don't like cars. I have a 330i as well and agree that the X3s handling is outstanding even by comparison to the standard bearer of all autodom. I've also run against MB G wagons on some dusty Mexican roads and can say with confidance that the X drive is far superior to anything else out there. Foot to the floor, dust spraying from all sides, and the Benz crabbed and wallowed while we sailed on tracking straight and in full control.. FOR LESS THAN HALF THE PRICE...
The "old" 2.5 six has been flawless and the "new" 3.0 is even better. What's not to love. So let the rest of the "Sporty" SUV crowd dote over Toyota RAV4, Nissan Murano SL, Acura RDX, Infiniti FX35, and Mazda CX-7.. Remember, no matter how many articles criticize, the above mentioned vehicles will never be bimmers.
Submitted by billhoward on January 4, 2007 - 8:52pm.
Whether Consumer Reports' conclusions are right or wrong, their auto testers are car nuts, starting with the guy at the top (of the car group), David Campion, who's a wicked fast autocrosser. It's possible copy passes through copy editors / rewriters who may put in some digs, but the car guys don't hate cars. And the reliability results are based on surveys of subscribers, not the whims of the testers. You don't think a bunch of car-haters would have sneaked a $40K Lotus Elise on the CR testing budget two years ago, do you?
Bill Howard
Editor, bmwcca.org
BMW News
Dec. 6, 2006
BMW’s X3 is the second-best sporty SUV but worse-than-average predicted reliability keeps it from being recommended by Consumer Reports.
BMW’s X3 is the second-best sporty SUV, says Consumer Reports, but it’s not recommended. “While the X3 performed well in our testing, its predicted reliability has dropped to worse than average,” CR says in its January 2007 issue. Among six sporty SUVs, CR rates them in this order: Toyota RAV4, BMW X3, Nissan Murano SL, Acura RDX, Infiniti FX35, and Mazda CX-7 Grand Touring. All are check-rated excepted the BMW and Mazda (which is too new to have reliability scores yet).
Consumer Reports said it liked the X3’s “agility, steering, braking, fit and finish, and controls,” but not the “ride, price, premium fuel, and touchy throttle.” The magazine noted that while “previous X3s had a punishing ride … this one is still choppy, but more tolerable.”
The magazine also reviewed off-road SUVs and check-rated the Nissan Xterra S, Kia Sorrento LX, and Jeep Liberty Sport V6. It warned that the fourth-rated Toyota FJ Cruiser had handling problems, including lifting both inside wheels on an emergency handling simulation before stability control intervened. The Hummer H3, the only tested vehicle with a much-worse-than-average predicted reliability was fifth and the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara was sixth.
login to post comments
I have been driving my new
Submitted by 364450 on December 15, 2006 - 8:58am.
I have been driving my new 2007 X3 3.0si for something like 100+ miles now and I think the Consumer Report testers need to awake from their comas. These are not high performance oriented auto people. What they referred to as touchy throttle is in my view exceptional, immediate throttle response--even better than the original N52 255 HP engine in the 530i and 330i. The power delivery is incredible. I have been very gentle with the throttle depressing it no more than about 1/4 of an inch during the break in period and keep RPMs well under 5000 rpm except for a few short light throttle breaks when I have had to pass something.
While I havn't driven the competitive small SUVs, my experience with some of the Japanese vehicles is such that I seriously doubt the Acura is on the same planet with this BMW in handling precision and competence. I am still totally amazed the way this tall vehicle takes turns and I have to remind myself it's not 530i in the corners.
Finally, if you look closely at the reliability scores for the most recent X3 CR had data on, the 2006,it received high marks in every area other than the radio in terms of reliability. Yet the authors of the test report rated it below average in predicted reliability--this despite the fact that it now has basically the same drivetrain and engine as the highly rated 530xi and 330xi. Is this incompetence, stupidity or are the Japanese making contributions to the author's retirement funds?
» login to post comments
I've had my X3 2.5i since
Submitted by A305288mike on December 18, 2006 - 2:35pm.
I've had my X3 2.5i since new in 04 and with 40K on the odometer I can only assume that it's now vogue for auto testers to pan BMW products whenever they can. Either that, or these guys just don't like cars. I have a 330i as well and agree that the X3s handling is outstanding even by comparison to the standard bearer of all autodom. I've also run against MB G wagons on some dusty Mexican roads and can say with confidance that the X drive is far superior to anything else out there. Foot to the floor, dust spraying from all sides, and the Benz crabbed and wallowed while we sailed on tracking straight and in full control.. FOR LESS THAN HALF THE PRICE...
The "old" 2.5 six has been flawless and the "new" 3.0 is even better. What's not to love. So let the rest of the "Sporty" SUV crowd dote over Toyota RAV4, Nissan Murano SL, Acura RDX, Infiniti FX35, and Mazda CX-7.. Remember, no matter how many articles criticize, the above mentioned vehicles will never be bimmers.
Submitted by billhoward on January 4, 2007 - 8:52pm.
Whether Consumer Reports' conclusions are right or wrong, their auto testers are car nuts, starting with the guy at the top (of the car group), David Campion, who's a wicked fast autocrosser. It's possible copy passes through copy editors / rewriters who may put in some digs, but the car guys don't hate cars. And the reliability results are based on surveys of subscribers, not the whims of the testers. You don't think a bunch of car-haters would have sneaked a $40K Lotus Elise on the CR testing budget two years ago, do you?
Bill Howard
Editor, bmwcca.org
02-18-07, 02:10 PM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
No offense, friend, but you and your dad need to actually go back, find some old copies of CR (or other CR sources ), and re-read what they actually had to say.
I've been reading Consumer Reports since the late 1960's. CR, in the mid-1970's, cautioned readers numerous times about the unreliability of the 1975 VW Rabbit, 1974 Dasher, and the almost identical Audi Fox....all three cars came from the same basic platform. The 3 cars gradually improved with age, but remained well below average in reliability for some time. The Dasher was enlarged, redesigned, and renamed the Quantum, the forerunner of today's Passat. The Rabbit became the Golf ( the Golf name was always used overseas ), and the "Rabbit with a trunk" Jetta expanded the car's appeal to non-hatchback lovers. But all of these products have been average or below in reliability throughout the years......VW has never really gotten the FWD/AWD reliability formula down as well as it did with the reliable air-cooled RWD designs for decades.
In addition to the findings of CR, I also saw some of this for myself. In the mid-1970's the time I worked in a Federal building right down the street from a VW dealership. Every buisness day, in the morning when the shop opened up, a line of Rabbits and Dashers would start at the door to the service shop and extend literally down the street hundereds of feet......most of these would be getting warranty work. You would see more or less the same thing at the Audi shops with the Fox and Audi LS, although, at the time, not many Audis were sold here in the U.S...its popularity did not take off until later, but was almost ruined by a media story in 1985 about "unintended acceleration" on the Audi 5000.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-18-07 at 02:36 PM.
02-18-07, 03:34 PM
#70
Pole Position
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the x3 is the worst BMW i've ever driven. I've daily driven a 01 325xi, 03 x5 4.4, 88 635csi, 03 bmw designed range rover, and various 7, 5 and 3 series over the years. I've driven the x3 as a loaner car many times and it sucks. The quality is horrible, its slow and doesnt move like a bmw at all. Im not bashing your car at all, your choice thats fine, but stop hyping it up like it not the worst bmw ever made. Not to mention its ugly and overpriced so much you could get an x5 for the same money which is 10 times the vehicle.
02-18-07, 03:39 PM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
the x3 is the worst BMW i've ever driven. I've daily driven a 01 325xi, 03 x5 4.4, 88 635csi, 03 bmw designed range rover, and various 7, 5 and 3 series over the years. I've driven the x3 as a loaner car many times and it sucks. The quality is horrible, its slow and doesnt move like a bmw at all. Im not bashing your car at all, your choice thats fine, but stop hyping it up like it not the worst bmw ever made. Not to mention its ugly and overpriced so much you could get an x5 for the same money which is 10 times the vehicle.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-18-07 at 03:42 PM.
02-18-07, 04:03 PM
#72
the x3 is the worst BMW i've ever driven. I've daily driven a 01 325xi, 03 x5 4.4, 88 635csi, 03 bmw designed range rover, and various 7, 5 and 3 series over the years. I've driven the x3 as a loaner car many times and it sucks. The quality is horrible, its slow and doesnt move like a bmw at all. Im not bashing your car at all, your choice thats fine, but stop hyping it up like it not the worst bmw ever made. Not to mention its ugly and overpriced so much you could get an x5 for the same money which is 10 times the vehicle.
So, you went from an 01 325xi, 03 x5 4.4,03 bmw designed range rover, and various 7, 5 and 3 series to a 92 ES300????
Ok "the worst BMW you ever driven?? lol. So which car was the x3 a loaner for and for which dealer?
02-18-07, 05:41 PM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
I question your credibility here, and buddy I am good at that.
So, you went from an 01 325xi, 03 x5 4.4,03 bmw designed range rover, and various 7, 5 and 3 series to a 92 ES300???? Ok "the worst BMW you ever driven?? lol. So which car was the x3 a loaner for and for which dealer?
So, you went from an 01 325xi, 03 x5 4.4,03 bmw designed range rover, and various 7, 5 and 3 series to a 92 ES300????
Ok "the worst BMW you ever driven?? lol. So which car was the x3 a loaner for and for which dealer?
02-18-07, 06:02 PM
#74
Why question his credibility? jhenty certainly knows what he has driven and owned over the years.....and he isn't questioning yours. Take him at his word. So he has gone from BMW's and SUV's to an ES...so what? I, myself, have owned a pretty good cross section of vehicles in my lifetime.....from economy cars to luxury cars to coupes to sports sedans to plastic-body Saturns to AWD Subarus.
Problem is, our buddy is a good story teller. Be a leader and not a follower I say to our buddy.. Have him post some pics of his "prior vehicles". Heck I had a Ferrari f430 and a Pagani but traded it in for a Gs400 & a Rav4 since i got tired of them.
02-18-07, 06:09 PM
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
A trend since its debut...
COUNTERPOINT
RON KIINO
I might have thought more of the X3 had I not driven it back-to-back with a Subaru Forester 2.5XT. Yes, the Bimmer is ritzier, offers more niceties, such as a power liftgate and hill-descent control, and handles and brakes in a league above, but it's more than two seconds slower to 60, a lot harsher in the ride department, and about 15 grand more on the bottom line. And as far as I can tell, it doesn't offer any real advantage in rear-seat space, cargo room, or all-weather traction. By itself, the X3 is an able performer, but next to the Forester, it simply seems like an inflated 3-series wagon, in both size and price.
PATRICK BEDARD
I've seen sillier cars. There was an angry, slotted Bizzarrini GT back in 1968 that scraped its belly on the ground like a skulking lizard. The AMC Gremlin, a subcompact created by chopping the useful space out of the compact Hornet, was pretty silly, too. But this BMW X3 is the 21st-century record holder. Especially with the sport-suspension option and six-speed box, BMW seems to have combined the worst features of sports cars and SUVs—the jarring ride, fast-wearing tires, and dinky cargo area of the former with the excessive weight and precious pricing of the latter. For $41,000 you get a sports car on stilts. Mondo silly.
LARRY WEBSTER
A BMW sport-ute had me skeptical from the start, but I grew to appreciate BMW's first effort, the X5. I once used an X5 to tow my race car—at a very comfortable and fast velocity—and once at the track exploited the car's flexibility by using it for a handful of not-too-slow demonstration laps around the course. I couldn't have done both in the 5-series wagon. But I don't think the X3 is any more useful than the 3-series wagon. Plus, the X3 gives up plenty of performance, and it's the worst-riding BMW I've ever driven. Sure, the X3 has a roomier interior, but from a driver's standpoint, it's not even a contest—I'd take the wagon version
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...30i-page2.html
COUNTERPOINT
RON KIINO
I might have thought more of the X3 had I not driven it back-to-back with a Subaru Forester 2.5XT. Yes, the Bimmer is ritzier, offers more niceties, such as a power liftgate and hill-descent control, and handles and brakes in a league above, but it's more than two seconds slower to 60, a lot harsher in the ride department, and about 15 grand more on the bottom line. And as far as I can tell, it doesn't offer any real advantage in rear-seat space, cargo room, or all-weather traction. By itself, the X3 is an able performer, but next to the Forester, it simply seems like an inflated 3-series wagon, in both size and price.
PATRICK BEDARD
I've seen sillier cars. There was an angry, slotted Bizzarrini GT back in 1968 that scraped its belly on the ground like a skulking lizard. The AMC Gremlin, a subcompact created by chopping the useful space out of the compact Hornet, was pretty silly, too. But this BMW X3 is the 21st-century record holder. Especially with the sport-suspension option and six-speed box, BMW seems to have combined the worst features of sports cars and SUVs—the jarring ride, fast-wearing tires, and dinky cargo area of the former with the excessive weight and precious pricing of the latter. For $41,000 you get a sports car on stilts. Mondo silly.
LARRY WEBSTER
A BMW sport-ute had me skeptical from the start, but I grew to appreciate BMW's first effort, the X5. I once used an X5 to tow my race car—at a very comfortable and fast velocity—and once at the track exploited the car's flexibility by using it for a handful of not-too-slow demonstration laps around the course. I couldn't have done both in the 5-series wagon. But I don't think the X3 is any more useful than the 3-series wagon. Plus, the X3 gives up plenty of performance, and it's the worst-riding BMW I've ever driven. Sure, the X3 has a roomier interior, but from a driver's standpoint, it's not even a contest—I'd take the wagon version
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...30i-page2.html