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Lexus IS-F or BMW M3? Who will win?

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Old 03-14-07, 06:45 PM
  #61  
MR_F1
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Originally Posted by Och
LOL, why would Lexus need to disect an M3 to create IS-F? IS-F is nothing more than a tuned IS with a bigger engine, just like M3 is a tuned 3 series with a bigger engine. You could say that perhaps Lexus disected a 3 series to create IS, but I find it very unlikely. Current IS is an evolution of a previous IS, which in turn is based on Supra - an already much superior car to the current M3.

That being said, if I was to chose between the upcoming M3 and IS-F, I'd probably chose the M3. A car like this simply MUST have a proper manual transmission.
every carmaker does it.
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Old 03-14-07, 06:46 PM
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I still believe IS-F specs are underrated. It's announced with 350 lb/ft torque, and its rather weak for a tuned 5.0 V8. I wont be surprised if it debuts with close to 400.
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Old 03-14-07, 07:23 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by GSteg
This is Lexus' first true attempt at making a track-bred car. Hopefully they dont make a mistake by giving it the same kind of steering response that rivals a Toyota Camry.
It might be Lexus first, but Toyota has tons and tons of experiences building track-bred vehicles that BMW can't hope to match.

I prefer camry steering to BMW. It's faster, sharper and lighter, much easier to drive on a daily basis. BMW steering are too slow and numb, but worse than that, they are too heavy for normal driving, yet not heavy enough for sportscar duties. M3 needs to be heavy/tight/fast like Supra twin turbos rack.
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Old 03-14-07, 07:36 PM
  #64  
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Toyota can certainly build race cars, no question about it. It's their implementation that they have not acheived with their previous cars (minus the supra).

Being able to build a track-bred car is one thing, but to build it so that it's civilized for the public road is another thing. It's not an easy feat. How many cars out there handles like a race car, yet tame enough not to toss your coins out of the coin holder. How many cars out there can drive as smooth as the Lexus LS, while offering world class handling. There is a balance between the two. It just happens that BMW has been the leader in this department.

I reserve further judgment until the IS-F comes out. I don't expect the IS-F to run over the M3. I would be proud of Toyota if the IS-F can do 90% of what the M3 can considering this is their first attempt at a serious performance machine.
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Old 03-14-07, 07:38 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by RiceMaster
It might be Lexus first, but Toyota has tons and tons of experiences building track-bred vehicles that BMW can't hope to match.

I prefer camry steering to BMW. It's faster, sharper and lighter, much easier to drive on a daily basis. BMW steering are too slow and numb, but worse than that, they are too heavy for normal driving, yet not heavy enough for sportscar duties. M3 needs to be heavy/tight/fast like Supra twin turbos rack.
I hope you got vaseline ready - BMW fanboys are about to go postal on you, lol.
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Old 03-14-07, 07:42 PM
  #66  
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The IS-F and M3 will be comparable 0-60.

However, this is the only area where it will be close. One reason is if you look at the IS body, it cannot accomodate wide tires like a bimmer. So overall handling will not be as good as an M3 or even a 335 for that matter.

Both will be great cars but for different markets entirely. They are not even worth comparing.
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Old 03-14-07, 07:47 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by sdbrandon
The IS-F and M3 will be comparable 0-60.

However, this is the only area where it will be close. One reason is if you look at the IS body, it cannot accomodate wide tires like a bimmer. So overall handling will not be as good as an M3 or even a 335 for that matter.

Both will be great cars but for different markets entirely. They are not even worth comparing.
Why does a car need wide tires to have good handling? Lotus Elise has 175 series front tires and 225 series rear tires, and handling wise it will make a joke of any BMW ever produced.
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Old 03-14-07, 07:50 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by DaveGS4
Guys let's keep the name calling and personal commentary out of this or it will be closed.

Please keep on topic about the vehicles, not the people posting in the thread.
I will repeat myself once again.

Originally Posted by Och
I hope you got vaseline ready - BMW fanboys are about to go postal on you, lol.
Och, comments like the above that fan the flames are neither appreciated nor needed. Please exit this thread and do not post in it any further.
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Old 03-14-07, 07:56 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Och
Why does a car need wide tires to have good handling? Lotus Elise has 175 series front tires and 225 series rear tires, and handling wise it will make a joke of any BMW ever produced.
The reason the Elise will make a joke of any BMW is because it weighs 2/3 what the majority of BMW's do, plus it is designed solely to handle well, with no concern about ride quality. Now if the cars were closer in weight and with a similar suspension setup, as will more likely be the case with the M3 vs IS-F tires would start to make a more noticeable difference. Yes, you're right in saying that a car can be made to handle well without wide tires, but that does not mean that wider tires cannot have a positive effect on handling.
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Old 03-14-07, 08:20 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by MR_F1
And doesn't the supra share a Getrag gearbox with BMW
Just because they source from the same company doesn't mean they are using the same gearbox, not to mention about shift linkage mechanism. Geez...
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Old 03-14-07, 08:26 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Och
Current IS is an evolution of a previous IS, which in turn is based on Supra - an already much superior car to the current M3.
The previous IS is only loosely based on the Supra. And that's still a stretch.

How is the Supra a "much superior car" to the current (E46) M3? You must know something that I don't know. Yes, the 2JZ engine has huge mod potential and is a monster, and very likely way more reliable than the M3. Other than that, I don't see the Supra being more superior stock to stock.
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Old 03-14-07, 08:29 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by RiceMaster
It might be Lexus first, but Toyota has tons and tons of experiences building track-bred vehicles that BMW can't hope to match.
Examples? Last time I check, BMW has win more international races than Toyota. Also, when's the last time Toyota win an F1 race?
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Old 03-14-07, 08:41 PM
  #73  
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Honestly, these 2 cars aren't even out yet, and saying this car is better than the other is just silly.
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Old 03-14-07, 08:45 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by STIG
Honestly, these 2 cars aren't even out yet, and saying this car is better than the other is just silly.
OMG... not again...
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Old 03-14-07, 09:55 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Och
I still believe IS-F specs are underrated. It's announced with 350 lb/ft torque, and its rather weak for a tuned 5.0 V8. I wont be surprised if it debuts with close to 400.
Agreed.

I estimate 420-465hp, 370-400ft/lbs torque.

Any takers?
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