1. 07 TL-S vs. #2. 07 IS350 vs #3. G35 at Willow Springs Racetrack.
#76
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Nice car Xpditor, the shinny blackj TL looks awesome,but I like the garage. I mean that's the car guy's garage for sure. I want a small frig. and a small LCD TV in my garage and I'm all set...
,Sorry about the off topic..
You and meowcat bring in a good knowledge about the Acura and car in general...
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You and meowcat bring in a good knowledge about the Acura and car in general...
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Nice car Xpditor, the shinny blackj TL looks awesome,but I like the garage. I mean that's the car guy's garage for sure. I want a small frig. and a small LCD TV in my garage and I'm all set...
,Sorry about the off topic..
You and meowcat bring in a good knowledge about the Acura and car in general...![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
You and meowcat bring in a good knowledge about the Acura and car in general...
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#80
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Good question.
The TL-S was equipped with its standard all-season Bridgestone Potenzas. It didn't even have the optional $200 high performance tire option. If I remember correctly, the G uses the same standard tires but I'm not sure about the IS.
I guess it would be logical to conclude that it would have done even better with the high performance tire option.
The TL-S was equipped with its standard all-season Bridgestone Potenzas. It didn't even have the optional $200 high performance tire option. If I remember correctly, the G uses the same standard tires but I'm not sure about the IS.
I guess it would be logical to conclude that it would have done even better with the high performance tire option.
Had they all been on the SAME tire, it would have been a far more valid test.
#81
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That is a good and valid question lobuxracer. These are $35K+ performance sedans and I don't expect them to come with crappy tires. One may come with slight better tires than the other and unless the difference is comparable racing tires vs street tires, I don't see them as a significant factor here.
If we wonder how the result would be had they have the same tires? How about if we add an extra passenger to the IS & G35 to be fair? Remember that the TL-S weight ~200 & 150 lbs more than the other two car. That is quite significant. How about if we restrict the air intake on the IS and the G to reduce the HP equal to the TL? We can go on and on and it won't get us anywhere.
The comparo was done with these car as how they came from the factory. No change was made to any of them.
If we wonder how the result would be had they have the same tires? How about if we add an extra passenger to the IS & G35 to be fair? Remember that the TL-S weight ~200 & 150 lbs more than the other two car. That is quite significant. How about if we restrict the air intake on the IS and the G to reduce the HP equal to the TL? We can go on and on and it won't get us anywhere.
The comparo was done with these car as how they came from the factory. No change was made to any of them.
#82
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Agree
#83
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Tires are the single largest difference between cars at the track. Tires trump horsepower, because horsepower can't help you carry speed through a turn, it can only help you accelerate (and even then, the tires dictate how quickly you can accelerate.) It is obvious to me the tires on the TL-S were working better than the competition on this day at Willow Springs. Had they all been on the SAME tires, we could really judge the differences in power, suspension, and handling. As it sits, the winner had the best tires for the day. I've done enough racing to know you can't win if you are not on the best tires for the day at the track. Two seconds per lap from a car with more weight and less power underscores the difference between tires and nothing more.
Best tires and crappy suspension setup do not win races.
Last edited by newr; 04-16-07 at 03:06 PM.
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I'll take best tires and crappy suspension over crappy tires and best suspension any day. And I'll definitely finish better. I've seen it many times over. Had the day been a typical 110F Willow Springs summer day, the result might have been quite different.
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I've said many times, if you put a racing series together and want fierce competition, just specify the tire and rim width, the maximum track and minimum weight of the vehicle. Leave out any rules regarding equipment (except safety for the drivers) and you will have a fiercely competitive series. Why? Too much power will kill the tires too quickly. Too much of anything will kill the tires too quickly. And everyone will be working with the same amount of grip. So the racing will be all about setup, driver skill, and strategy. For instance - look at F1 the last time they had tire wars. If you weren't on Michelins, you were battling for the best mid-pack finish you could get. Bridgestone just didn't have the right stuff to compete with Michelin, and all the Michelin teams had a significant advantage for almost the entire season. It was the first time Schumacher had real trouble getting to the front in his entire career.
Do I think the TL-S had the best tires (for Willow Springs, on the day they tested)? Yes, I certainly do. Do those tires test comparably to the tires on the other cars? Probably not on any given day, but on THIS day, they were the tire to run.
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Some valid points are being made about the importance of tires.
I repeat: The TL-S was wearing its bone stock all-season OEM tires that come on all 6MT TLs. High Performance or summer tires is an option but this TL-S did not have them.
The IS350 comes standard with high performance or summer tires.
The G35 comes with the same tires as the TL-S unless they, too, were upgraded to high performance tires.
I repeat: The TL-S was wearing its bone stock all-season OEM tires that come on all 6MT TLs. High Performance or summer tires is an option but this TL-S did not have them.
The IS350 comes standard with high performance or summer tires.
The G35 comes with the same tires as the TL-S unless they, too, were upgraded to high performance tires.
#87
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I didn't say anything about compound. I couldn't care less about compound. I'm looking at lap times. I know Willow Springs big track. It is a tire track. The best tires for the day will produce the best times. Tires ARE the biggest differentiator on any race day. Why do so many series run spec tires? Because ANY advantage in tires will almost guarantee beating the competition.
I've said many times, if you put a racing series together and want fierce competition, just specify the tire and rim width, the maximum track and minimum weight of the vehicle. Leave out any rules regarding equipment (except safety for the drivers) and you will have a fiercely competitive series. Why? Too much power will kill the tires too quickly. Too much of anything will kill the tires too quickly. And everyone will be working with the same amount of grip. So the racing will be all about setup, driver skill, and strategy. For instance - look at F1 the last time they had tire wars. If you weren't on Michelins, you were battling for the best mid-pack finish you could get. Bridgestone just didn't have the right stuff to compete with Michelin, and all the Michelin teams had a significant advantage for almost the entire season. It was the first time Schumacher had real trouble getting to the front in his entire career.
I've said many times, if you put a racing series together and want fierce competition, just specify the tire and rim width, the maximum track and minimum weight of the vehicle. Leave out any rules regarding equipment (except safety for the drivers) and you will have a fiercely competitive series. Why? Too much power will kill the tires too quickly. Too much of anything will kill the tires too quickly. And everyone will be working with the same amount of grip. So the racing will be all about setup, driver skill, and strategy. For instance - look at F1 the last time they had tire wars. If you weren't on Michelins, you were battling for the best mid-pack finish you could get. Bridgestone just didn't have the right stuff to compete with Michelin, and all the Michelin teams had a significant advantage for almost the entire season. It was the first time Schumacher had real trouble getting to the front in his entire career.
If everything else was being equal... same cars, same suspension setup, same weight, same driver skills, same power, and etc... The only thing different on these cars were the tires. Then I agree with you that the fastest cars had the best tires.
I repeat: The TL-S was wearing its bone stock all-season OEM tires that come on all 6MT TLs. High Performance or summer tires is an option but this TL-S did not have them.
The IS350 comes standard with high performance or summer tires.
The G35 comes with the same tires as the TL-S unless they, too, were upgraded to high performance tires.
The IS350 comes standard with high performance or summer tires.
The G35 comes with the same tires as the TL-S unless they, too, were upgraded to high performance tires.
#88
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Some valid points are being made about the importance of tires.
I repeat: The TL-S was wearing its bone stock all-season OEM tires that come on all 6MT TLs. High Performance or summer tires is an option but this TL-S did not have them.
The IS350 comes standard with high performance or summer tires.
The G35 comes with the same tires as the TL-S unless they, too, were upgraded to high performance tires.
I repeat: The TL-S was wearing its bone stock all-season OEM tires that come on all 6MT TLs. High Performance or summer tires is an option but this TL-S did not have them.
The IS350 comes standard with high performance or summer tires.
The G35 comes with the same tires as the TL-S unless they, too, were upgraded to high performance tires.
Originally Posted by http://www.lexus.com/models/IS/detailed_specifications.html
225/45VR17 all-season tires front, 245/45VR17 all-season tires rear
OH SNAP! All Season tires? Pure BS. How about Bridgestone RE 030s in 235/45/17 sizes? That's what's in the video.
How about this:
Originally Posted by Tire Rack
The Potenza RE030 is an Ultra High Performance Summer Original Equipment tire designed to enhance the responsiveness and handling of performance sedans like the 6-speed manual transmission equipped Acura TL, as well as the Lexus GS300, GS400 and GS430 sedans. The Potenza RE030 was developed to provide good traction along with responsive and predictable dry and wet road handling. It is not intended to be driven in the snow.
Sounds to me like the car on the best tires won. Period.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 04-17-07 at 01:18 AM.
#89
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The IS350 comes with 17" tires standard. Summer tires are optional.
So, what tires did the IS350 wear that day?
OH SNAP! All Season tires? Pure BS. How about Bridgestone RE 030s in 235/45/17 sizes? That's what's in the video. How about this:
All Season my behind!@
Sounds to me like the car on the best tires won. Period.
So, what tires did the IS350 wear that day?
OH SNAP! All Season tires? Pure BS. How about Bridgestone RE 030s in 235/45/17 sizes? That's what's in the video. How about this:
All Season my behind!@
Sounds to me like the car on the best tires won. Period.
IS350: 225/45VR17 all-season tires front, 245/45VR17 all-season tires rear standard, 225/40YR18 summer tires front, 255/40YR18 summer tires rear optional.
G sedan: G35, G35 Journey, G35x AWD: 225/55R17 V-rated all-season performance tires; G35 Sport, G35 Sport 6MT: 225/50R18 (front), 245/45R18 (rear) W-rated summer performance tires.
As for what shoes these cars were actually wearing, I'd let someone who reads Japanese tell you instead of assuming anything.
#90
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How about looking at the video screeshot above...