BMW diesel hybrid likely to feature in next-gen 5-series ?
04-13-07, 06:51 AM
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BMW diesel hybrid likely to feature in next-gen 5-series ?
BMW diesel hybrid likely to feature in next-gen 5-series
Posted on Thursday 12 April 2007
BMW has always backed economic diesels in favor of petrol-electric hybrids when it comes to building fuel efficient drivetrains, however, a senior engineer has confirmed the carmaker will launch a hybrid vehicle but only if it proves more economical in real world conditions than its diesel counterpart.
The latest diesel powered cars have already beaten hybrid vehicles such as the Toyota Prius in the mileage stakes, and the oil-burners easily trump cars such as Lexus’s GS and LS hybrid sedans in the large car segment as well. Speaking with UK publication Autocar, the BMW source admitted that hybrid cars were better in slow moving stop-start traffic, but in real world driving diesels are still more economical.
BMW and its main rival DaimlerChrysler have joined forces to develop hybrid drivetrains, with the latter making the bold claim that a hybrid option will eventually be available across its product range. BMW’s first hybrid vehicle will most likely be the next-generation 5-series sedan, which may be followed by a hybrid X5 in 2010, and both cars are expected to run a mild-hybrid system utilizing a diesel engine rather than a petrol unit.
Posted on Thursday 12 April 2007
BMW has always backed economic diesels in favor of petrol-electric hybrids when it comes to building fuel efficient drivetrains, however, a senior engineer has confirmed the carmaker will launch a hybrid vehicle but only if it proves more economical in real world conditions than its diesel counterpart.
The latest diesel powered cars have already beaten hybrid vehicles such as the Toyota Prius in the mileage stakes, and the oil-burners easily trump cars such as Lexus’s GS and LS hybrid sedans in the large car segment as well. Speaking with UK publication Autocar, the BMW source admitted that hybrid cars were better in slow moving stop-start traffic, but in real world driving diesels are still more economical.
BMW and its main rival DaimlerChrysler have joined forces to develop hybrid drivetrains, with the latter making the bold claim that a hybrid option will eventually be available across its product range. BMW’s first hybrid vehicle will most likely be the next-generation 5-series sedan, which may be followed by a hybrid X5 in 2010, and both cars are expected to run a mild-hybrid system utilizing a diesel engine rather than a petrol unit.
04-13-07, 04:24 PM
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Either way, hybrids will be the future as the bridge between where we are now and where we want to be.
It doesn't matter what fuel you use, the hybrid version will always get better mileage. Diesel vs. diesel hybrid, petrol vs petrol hybrid, hydrogen ICE vs. hydrogen hybrid...
It doesn't matter what fuel you use, the hybrid version will always get better mileage. Diesel vs. diesel hybrid, petrol vs petrol hybrid, hydrogen ICE vs. hydrogen hybrid...
04-14-07, 07:45 AM
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Somehow I expected this comment.
04-14-07, 07:59 AM
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Anyhow, I think this is a good step. I was wondering why they weren't using a diesel as a hybrid option considering that the engines get better gas mileage than a regular gasoline engine. If the endgine that they use is efficient to begin with, making it a hybrid is going to make it even better. There is nothing but good that can come out of this. My guess is the mileage should be around 40-50 MPG. As is, the Mercedes diesel gets 37 just using the straight 6 diesel... so, I'm guessing making it a hybrid will only boost MPG.
04-14-07, 02:12 PM
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Sounds like you're downplaying the amount of electrical work that's involved in building a diesel/ELECTRIC hybrid powertrain. Open door sensors may not be a safety issue, but if a company can't even get simple electronics like those right, it is IMO a huge safety concern in their very first hybrid electric powertrain.
04-14-07, 09:42 PM
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I recently drove a 118d for a week that averaged 47 mpg (not a typo; mix of autobahn and urban roads, and I was hard on the throttle), reached a top speed of 215 km/h (133 mph), and did 0-100 km/h in just over 9 seconds...all while carrying three passengers.
Show me a Prius that can do that.
The six cylinder versions offer performance on par with their petrol counterparts but with the fuel economy of a small four cylinder petrol engine (30-40 mpg). These are straight diesel engines. I can imagine a small engine diesel hybrid would be capable of fuel economy in the realm of 70-80 mpg, possibly beyond.
Now, if only they could fit that drivetrain to a vehicle that isn't so hard on the eyes.
Show me a Prius that can do that.
The six cylinder versions offer performance on par with their petrol counterparts but with the fuel economy of a small four cylinder petrol engine (30-40 mpg). These are straight diesel engines. I can imagine a small engine diesel hybrid would be capable of fuel economy in the realm of 70-80 mpg, possibly beyond.
Now, if only they could fit that drivetrain to a vehicle that isn't so hard on the eyes.
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04-17-07, 11:05 PM
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I recently drove a 118d for a week that averaged 47 mpg (not a typo; mix of autobahn and urban roads, and I was hard on the throttle), reached a top speed of 215 km/h (133 mph), and did 0-100 km/h in just over 9 seconds...all while carrying three passengers.
Show me a Prius that can do that.
The six cylinder versions offer performance on par with their petrol counterparts but with the fuel economy of a small four cylinder petrol engine (30-40 mpg). These are straight diesel engines. I can imagine a small engine diesel hybrid would be capable of fuel economy in the realm of 70-80 mpg, possibly beyond.
Now, if only they could fit that drivetrain to a vehicle that isn't so hard on the eyes.
Show me a Prius that can do that.
The six cylinder versions offer performance on par with their petrol counterparts but with the fuel economy of a small four cylinder petrol engine (30-40 mpg). These are straight diesel engines. I can imagine a small engine diesel hybrid would be capable of fuel economy in the realm of 70-80 mpg, possibly beyond.
Now, if only they could fit that drivetrain to a vehicle that isn't so hard on the eyes.
Yeah I can get 47mph doing 70mph with 4 people + luggage on board (two summers ago). I can't do 133mph and it takes me 10.5 secs to reach 100km/h. However, my passengers will be much more comfortable because there's actually space for them and their cargo. The 1 series is tiny! You might as well get the Golf TDI instead and save yourself some cash. Yeah I know it doesn't have the prestige of a BMW but it has more space and probably just as economical!
04-19-07, 07:36 AM
#9
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By putting an electric motor, this would help address the weakness that it faces against current hybrids: Energy savings during idle to low-speed driving.
I say bring it on so that diesel can perform better than what they achieve now......but I also say that BMW should bring it on by improving its reliability (remember the defect when heated seats in BMW 5 & 7 series overheated and burned the asses of people who activated the feature
)
I say bring it on so that diesel can perform better than what they achieve now......but I also say that BMW should bring it on by improving its reliability (remember the defect when heated seats in BMW 5 & 7 series overheated and burned the asses of people who activated the feature
)
04-19-07, 07:44 AM
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Sounds like you're downplaying the amount of electrical work that's involved in building a diesel/ELECTRIC hybrid powertrain. Open door sensors may not be a safety issue, but if a company can't even get simple electronics like those right, it is IMO a huge safety concern in their very first hybrid electric powertrain.
Of course not. They never get anything right. Stupid BMW... I can't even believe they sell soo many and are soo profitable. I mean, those things must literally go haywire the second you drive off the lot...
04-19-07, 10:38 AM
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Keep up the good work
04-19-07, 12:51 PM
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I do think that diesels make a better partner for the electric motors, because they are very efficient at continuous load (such as charging the batteries).
04-19-07, 01:55 PM
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I think it all depends on the kind of driving you do. A hybrid is going to be in its element in the city (stop-and-go, lots of braking, generally slow speeds). If you do continuous freeway driving, where the batteries cannot sustain the required speeds for a long time, you are left with a small engine (working closer to its limit than a comparable small car's engine) pulling an extra couple of hundred pounds of batteries with it.
I do think that diesels make a better partner for the electric motors, because they are very efficient at continuous load (such as charging the batteries).
I do think that diesels make a better partner for the electric motors, because they are very efficient at continuous load (such as charging the batteries).
Also, the added weight of batteries will cause lower fuel economy during acceleration, but it is recaptured during braking. At a steady speed as in a freeway cruise you describe above, the effect of the extra weight on fuel economy is negligible. Think about it this way - an object in motion tends to stay in motion. The only thing opposing the car is air drag, rolling resistance from the tires, and minor friction from other miscellaneous friction items like wheel bearings. Extra weight carried inside the car has no effect on air drag.
04-19-07, 02:17 PM
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Just because they had quality issues in the past does not mean they will continue to do so in the future. They don't make all the components for their cars by themselves, just like other companies. And they are not the only ones having quality issues. The best example is Toyota's automatic transmissions in V6 Camrys and ES350s that were outsourced and are failing. But I don't think that you will mention THAT in every post, now, would you?
Some people on this forum feel the need to mention negatives of the other car companies in every post
, as if to assert to themselves that their view of the world is right. This highlights some insecurity on the part of these individuals, IMO.Bottom line - if there's a problem, find the root and fix it - and move on. I think this 'fanboy' stuff is silly and not very smart. A smart consumer does not show allegiance to a brand - they show an allegiance to themselves by getting the best product at the time. This may be different for different people and there is no need to duke it out here... really. May this rest in peace, once and for all.
04-19-07, 02:23 PM
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That's true, however, steady freeway is not usually possible in real life - you have to accelerate to pass cars, slow down, etc., so your speed is not constant. Also, it takes a certain adjustment of driving habits to get the most out of a hybrid. I think that real-life hard driving (where you don't feather the throttle and coast to conserve energy, etc.) will work against hybrid fuel economy in certain conditions. I was just saying that a diesel might be a match for a hybrid on a freeway, especially, under real-life conditions.