Trexus

I'm a little confused as you currently don't even own a GM product and yet you'd rather see GM be the number one auto manufacturer in the world. If you really support GM I'd think that you would have at least one GM vehicle in your stable. Toyota makes a great product and GM doesn't it's simple as that. People nowadays would like a car that is somewhat reliable and dependable and gets good gas mileage.

OC 335d

Maybe GM doesn't offer a car he wants or he doesn't want a truck.

His reasoning is simple:

Threxx

As already stated, the numbers were referring to every domestically purchased vehicle with a domestic branded badge on it vs a foreign branded badge - regardless of where it was made, designed, marketed, or whatnot.

And they were a breakdown of every dollar spent. Not just parts content. Even the dealership profit. As in when you write a check for 20 thousand dollars, what percentage of it is leaving our country for any reason whether corporate profit or paying foreign marketing companies or parts suppliers or whatever.

You still seemed to skip over the brunt of my point that even if you were to assume (incorrectly) that the average foreign branded car kept just as many dollars in the domestic economy as did domestic branded cars - you still have to consider the benefit of having a globally-reaching powerhouse organization corporately rooted in our domestic economy. Toyota's domestically sold vehicles could keep 95% of all money spent on them in our country for all we care and we'd still be worse off overall because you can pretty much assume anything sold outside of north america would send 0% of their purchase price to our country - even the small sliver of profit left after everybody else gets theirs.


Just because I'd prefer to see GM stay in business doesn't mean I'm going to just "donate" my hard earned cash to them unless I feel that they have a product that I want to buy more than anyone else's.

My preference to see the domestic economy do well doesn't necessarily take presidence over my personal purchasing decisions. Would I prefer to see GM come out with a vehicle that I could buy and feel like I bought the best thing I could for my money? Yes. Do I feel like they currently have anything in any class of vehicle that *I* am interested in that I think is superior? Mmmm... they've got some really nice new ones that have come out recently but are just outside of my range of interest enough to keep them from being a consideration. Exception possibly being the Corvette.

And if it makes any difference to you, I've owned GM vehicles in the past... as recently as 5 years ago actually.

mmarshall

Part of this, though, would take the relationship of the dollar-vs.-yen into consideration. We generally pay for our new vehicles in U.S. dollars. Toyota executives in Japan deal with yen, the Japanese currency, more than they do with dollars directly. The value of the dollar and the yen changes daily, even hourly, with the world economy, and, to some extent, with world stock prices. So the dollars that we sent to Japan, as opposed to their yen, will not have a constant "value".

Same with the Japanese vehicle market. The Japanese public buys American-designed and American-assembled vehicles in Japan as well (those that we export with right-hand drive), albeit in fewer numbers than we buy their products. A good example was the Chevy Cavalier.....Toyota actually sold that POS in Japan as a home-market Toyota product. They, of course, pay for those vehicles in yen, and that has to be converted to dollars when the money comes back here.

So, I'm not doubting some of the points that you made, but it is, in actuality, a very complex matter...world economics has always been, and always will be, difficult to decipher.



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Trexus

Practice what you preach. Hypocrisy can only get you so far. To be sincere and say what you mean and doing what you mean people will follow. Most people have woken up and they don't want a GM product as do you.

Threxx

I appreciate your response, however I read it twice and didn't see how any of it really addressed or made a counterpoint to what I said about the benefit of having a globally reaching corporate presence rooted in our domestic economy.

Threxx

Did I condemn anyone here for not buying GM vehicles? Then what exactly did I preach that I am not following myself?

All I stated was my desire for GM to make a comeback by producing vehicles that will allow them to take over the lead. From an economic perspective I am sad to see GM lose the lead. I never said 'damn you people for not buying their cars' or 'their products are just as good as everyone else right now so people should be buying them'.

I believe you're just looking for a reason to bicker.

Trexus

No, I'm not looking for a reason to bicker. Your statements state that GM should be number one in it's industry but people aren't going to buy inferior products, sure there will be loyal customers that will buy GM no matter what but for the most; people will want a decent product and a even smaller percentage of people want a superior product. GM is far from being a superior product and there are a wide range of GM products. I personally have never owned a GM product. I spend my hard earned money on what I need and what I want and so do many other people. The tides have changed. I'm sure GM will be around for a long time but they will not be number one forever. Hopefully GM will wake up and start making dependable and reliable products that people want.

mmarshall

I agree it may not address your point directly, but it can and does affect the relationship of the dollars going out of the country from buying foreign-nameplate cars vs. the yen coming in from sales of our own products in Japan. That relationship will change with the daily up-and-down fluctuation of world currency values, no matter where or in whose country corporate presence reaches.

Threxx

Where did I say they "should be number one"? Saying I'd like them to be number one for the benefit of the domestic economy is different from saying they SHOULD be number one.

In fact saying I'd like them to be number one is pretty much what you just did....

spwolf

Reason this didnt happen sooner is of GM-Daewoo purchase... otherwise it would be last year.

I dont see how big benefit for US economy is GM moving engineering and production of vehicles to South Korea :-).

newr

to Toyota. They make one of the most reliable vehicles out there.

Trexus

In post #16 you've stated that you'd really rather see GM take the lead back. If that isn't saying number one then you're confusing yourself.

This is not sad day. I'm ecstatic for Toyota. We live in a world of change. Change is constant. We must accept and deal with it. I don't really care for GM. As I've stated I've never purchased a GM product and I know I never will. If Toyota starts to make inferior products I will go somewhere else such as Honda. Our economy will still survive even if GM goes down but GM won't go down. I'm sure GM will be around but they won't be the same company as they have been. GM has been number one for fifty years now it's Toyota's time to be number one. Maybe Toyota can be number one for fifty-one years? Only time will tell.

Threxx

You're confusing yourself, now... I never said that I didn't say 'number one'. I said that I didn't say they SHOULD be number one, just that I'd like to see them become number one again. It's the difference between saying your favorite team SHOULD win the championship and saying you hope they'll win the championship.

Here's post #16 you referred to:

For the last time. I was saying, very clearly, that for the sake of the economy, I'd like to see them take the lead back.

That in no way implies that they SHOULD take the lead back - as you keep implying I've said.

Good grief. You've put words in my mouth more times in this thread than I can even count.

Trexus

Our econmy is going to do just fine with or without GM. I did not put words in your mouth, I'm just interpreting what your are stating. You want GM to become number one again hopefully that's what you're stating. I don't really care about GM as you do. You emphasis that GM has such a great impact on our economy? Any company doing business in our country has an impact on our economy. All those employees that GM has or will layoff can come work for Toyota. Toyota is going to need them since Toyota is expanding. Relax we're just talking about how Toyota has overtaken GM as far as global sales. GM is still number one in U.S. sales, hopefully that makes you feel better...