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Toyota cutting hybrid costs, claims every car produced will be hybrid by 2020

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Old 05-13-07 | 04:46 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by UberNoob
what i dont get is that they said plug-in hybrids are not feasible right now
but why not?
Because a plug-in hybrid only relies on batteries for its range.
This means that it has to have ~400% greater battery capacity than the current Prius to be practical. Currently, I think the only technology that can offer adequate capacity-to-weight is the Lithium Ion Polymer batteries (like in cell phones and notebooks).
So here are the reasons that I can think of (in no particular order):
1) The cost. This is the killer. The cost of the batteries, the software, the charger, installation of the charger at home, etc. It is true that some of the cost might be offset by the lower operating cost, but the upfront cost is considerable.
2) These batteries heat up when used, so there are potential overheating / fire hazard issues.
3) Batteries last much longer if kept in the ~50-90% charged range. Prius has software that maintains the batteries at their optimal charge level (with the help of the IC engine). This will be impossible with a plug-in, unless you want to stop and catch an electric tow truck
4) Weight / interior space compromise issues, due to batteries.
5) Battery disposal issues.
Old 05-13-07 | 07:49 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Robarapta
Hopefully, the new batteries of the next gen. will be smaller so as not to compromise trunk space as much . . .
The HiHy and RXh have the batteries under the rear seat so they don't compromise luggage space. The Prius has it under the floor and still has a underfloor storage bin.

I just don't understand why the Camry Hybrid has it they way it is especially since they were designing the new Camry with a hybrid in mind (unlike.. say the GS).

Originally Posted by mmarshall
We'll see what technology is like down the road, but at current levels, I'm still not sold on gas-electric or diesel-electric hybrids. They are complex, expensive to produce, and the question of how to recycle battery packs is still an ongoing problem. In addition, the idea of the battery pack behind the rear seats, right over the fuel tank, REALLY makes me nervous when I think of what can happen in a substantial rear-impact, with sparks from the battery case combined with a tank rupture.
e, straight, small diesel engine up front, like on the overseas-market VW Lupo,
true but they are very well sealed. LA Car added one of those Bazooka tube subwoofers to the Prius. They placed it behind the rear seat, over the battery and drilled the brackets to the floor. They punctured the first layer of metal that protects the battery but it still had another layer beneath it. Obviously I don't suggest drilling it down but now we know how thick the casing it haha.

Originally Posted by MR_F1
Do they mean ALL their vehicles will be hybrids or that all models will have a hybrid option?
From what I read (other sources included), it seems like they want ALL their vehicles to be hybrids only by 2020. (Cause 2010 was the year they want a hybrid option in every model... which is awfully close so I don't know how they're gonna pull it off esp. since they have > half of their fleet left to hybridise).
Old 05-13-07 | 10:31 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Robarapta
I've heard Toyota is working on fuel cell cars too, they will be "hybrids" as well, basically using the same technology as the gasoline-electric hybrids, but using hydrogen fuel cells instead of gasoline engine . . .
now that be something but electricity with hydrogen, is that even safe lol
Old 05-14-07 | 12:54 PM
  #19  
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Toyota said it wants hybrid models of vehicles that sell over 100k units first, I don't see how they can get all models be hybrids by then
Old 05-15-07 | 12:09 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by xioix
Toyota said it wants hybrid models of vehicles that sell over 100k units first, I don't see how they can get all models be hybrids by then
Well, the Corolla is next then since it's the next best selling car after the Camry lol.

Well, let's see... by 2010, we'll have:

- redesigned Sienna (2009 MY)
- redesigned Prius (2009 MY)
- redesigned Highlander (2008 MY)
- redesigned Corolla (2008 MY)
- redesigned Matrix aka. Auris (2008 MY)
- Updated Camry (2010 MY)
- Updated RAV4 (2009 MY unless they cut it short again and make it 2008 MY)
- Redesigned 4Runner (2008 MY unless they plan in extending its life like they did with the old 4Runners)
- Redesigned Sequoia (2008 MY since the Tundra's out and it's been 7 years)
- Redesigned Tundra (2007 MY) and the Tundra Hybrid is planned after the diesel comes out
- Updated Tacoma

The Yaris just comes short at 2011 MY as the expected year for the redesigned model. Again, unless they cut the Yaris' life short to 4 years and have one out by 2010.


Disclaimer: The years I've given are NOT official. They're based on the 5 year cycle that Toyota normally gives to its vehicles (unless something happens that requires the need to shorten or lengthen its life cycle).

Also, by "redesigned" I mean a full makeover, by "updated" I mean mid-life refresher (i.e. a "½" generation.. e.g. Gen 5.5)
Old 05-15-07 | 04:46 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Evitzee
There is still a lot of life left in the good old internal combustion engine. Unfortunately many of the gains made in the last decade or so in this area were wasted in building bigger, heavier, more powerful cars.
I think you're spot on about the extra weight angle. The current VW Golf GTI is double the weight of the original GTI and therefore needs double the power to achieve the same performance. Taking weight out of current vehicles would enable smaller, more fuel efficient engines to be used with no loss of performance and increases in mpg similar to hybrids.

Whether or not consumers would be happy about driving smaller, lighter cars is another thing as many are paranoid that a Hummer is going to come round every corner and flatten them.
Old 05-15-07 | 09:26 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Evitzee
Unfortunately many of the gains made in the last decade or so in this area were wasted in building bigger, heavier, more powerful cars.
So true. This is why I welcome the high gas prices. It's causing a shift back to more "appropriate", fuel efficient cars. Of course, having more power can be more fun, but how often is a Camry or Accord driver going to make use of 275 HP?
Old 05-15-07 | 01:57 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Robarapta
I've heard Toyota is working on fuel cell cars too, they will be "hybrids" as well, basically using the same technology as the gasoline-electric hybrids, but using hydrogen fuel cells instead of gasoline engine . . .
They have actually been at it for about 15 years. They have the FCHVs bases on a Highlander (Kluger) chassis. They have had people using them as everyday vehicles testing since 1997 I believe.
Old 05-15-07 | 10:41 PM
  #24  
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yeah and in 1998, they promised FCs by 2003.
Old 05-15-07 | 10:42 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ff_
So true. This is why I welcome the high gas prices. It's causing a shift back to more "appropriate", fuel efficient cars. Of course, having more power can be more fun, but how often is a Camry or Accord driver going to make use of 275 HP?
+1.

But then again, it's only because their SUVs require a bigger engine and it's easier to just use the same engine in their cars rather than making another one. So it all comes back to the SUV hahaha. <sigh> whatever happened to AWD wagons? Hell, even the Outback can satisfy a lotta people. You wanna sit high, go drive a UPS truck. That's high.
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