MR_F1

Current gen RAV4 Sport/Limited V6 AWD > X3....

In almost every conceivable manner

mmarshall

Good thing you said "almost". The RAV4, I'll agree, is a better value for the money, and far more reliable. But its power steering, transmission shifter, and chassis dynamics cannot compare to BMW's. Next to the X3, the RAV4 feels like a minivan....it even has a 3rd-row seat like one now.

Don't get me wrong. The RAV4 is an excellent vehicle for what it designed for, and if I had to depend on one every day, reliability-wise, to get me to work and back, I'd probably choose it (or a Honda CR-V) over any BMW product. But...on a twisty road, you have to sample and feel BMW's steering to believe it. There's just nothing like it, despite a little more body roll in the X3 than the X5.

ff_

Are you referring to the fact that reverse is "up and to the left"? After having owned 2 BMWs, I've decided that in my mind, this is where reverse should be. The first car I owned after the BMWs was the S2000, and immediately (and from then on) I wished that the Honda gearbox was set up the same.


As far as FWD econo-cute-utes go, the Rav4 V6 is probably at the top of the pack. But to say that it's better than the X3 in almost every conceivable way... I doubt that comment is even close to true.

mmarshall

No. With automatics and automanuals, Reverse is ALWAYS at the top...right below Park. That is a Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Law for quadrant standardization....P-R-N-D-Lower gears. It dates back to the 1960's.

What I was refering to was the automanual sport-shift gate. With most vehicles, you bump the lever forward to upshift, back to downshift (or left/right with the Chrysler and Mercedes Autosticks). With BMW and Mazda products, you do the opposite...bump the lever forward to downshift, back to upshift. Obviously, if you are not used to this pattern, you can easily redline the engine, so you have to be careful for awhile.

MR_F1

please see mmarshals post. The only place that this BMW bests the toyota is in driving dynamics. Notice I specified V6 AWD.
You will also note that the rav is faster to 0-60 and gets equal or better mileage. This is what matters in the real world for this type of vehicle, I don't see ppl taking their cute-utes to the track, so lets not get into the handling thing. I'm sure all the soccer moms out there just love to do the slalom and see how much g's they can pull on the skid pad.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

You are correct about this.. When I use the steptronic, I tend to forget that forward is to downshift and back is to upshift.. I like that fact that you can shift through all the gears, unlike the GS4 which locks out 1st gear.. The vehicle also feels more lively in sport drive.

Threxx

The lease rates on the X3 are FAR superior to the MDX if you're looking at leasing. So much so that a 45k sticker MDX would probably cost you almost a 40% premium over a 45k X3.

AzNMpower

Don't compare the Toyota Rav4 to the BMW X3. They're in different classes.

BMWs are rarely the "best value" or "best bang for you buck". However, if dollars and numbers are all you care about, there are plenty of vehicles out there that look great on paper, but overall just don't do much more than provide transportation. And I don't know about some of you, but I don't see a vehicle's purpose solely as "to get from A to B".

mmarshall

The most likely reason that the GS400 doesn't allow manual downshifts into first (my IS300 didn't either) is to keep overzealous drivers from putting it way down into first at too high an RPM and either redlining the engine or giving the whole drivetrain a serious jolt, which, of course, doesn't do the transmission, driveline, differential, or universal joints any good.

ff_

I'll bet that I could test drive and examine both, and come up a nice list of qualities in the X3 that are more/better than the RAV4. Of course, I look a lot deeper than just HP or number of seats and cupholders.

I just don't see these 2 vehicles being in the same league, any more than the Camry and 3 Series would be.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

True... One feature of the tranny in the X3 and other BMW models equipped with steptronic, is that in auto sport mode, when you are driving enthusiastically and release the gas pedal for a second, the transmission holds the current gear instead of automatically down shifting.. This is common with the E55 AMG Mercedes..

MR_F1

Its obvious that they are in different "classes" (though not by much....how much more doen market will BMW go? ) and I'm not talking about value. I'm claiming the RAV is a better overall vehicle. Not that you'd catch me buying either of them, and if you see a vehicles purpose as other than to solely to get from "A to B", you wouldn't be looking at this class of vehicle either.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Welp, I personally believe that Camry V6 is much superior to BMW 330.

Threxx

LOL

Och

iTrader: (3)

Faster, more powerful, bigger, better built, more reliable, better value.