4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

it can hang with the 330 in a 0-60 despite being FWD

Threxx

It's a stupid comparison. The Camry is an appliance. It's boring to drive. Yes, it's a better value - that's what appliances are all about, after all.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Boring is subjective. Compared to a real sports car, a 3 series is a boring appliance as well. In any case, a car that pulls 1/4 mile in less than 15 seconds isn't that boring. Just a few years ago it was the territory of the fastest sedans out there (GS400, 540, Impala SS).

doug_999

and utterly boring to drive.

as Consumer Reports said about the sister ES350, "Agility is not a strong suit, and the ES is not even remotely fun to drive."

So yes, faster and more reliable (the others are redundant or subjective) the Camry is. But if you like driving, it is the wrong car.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Depends on what is your defenition of liking to drive. See, I love driving, and I love driving my LS400. Nothing like a nice, smooth, quiet cruise down the highway. Driving nirvana if you ask me.

Now don't get me wrong, being 28 I'm still fairly young to enjoy agressive drive once in a while, but for such purposes give me a real sports car, my favorite being S2000. Raise the RPMs and the engine keeps asking for more and more, manual tranny that becomes an extension of you, no body roll in twisties, precise steering combined with light weight and small size make the car very easy to handle. Driving nirvana if you ask me. But then of course, I also love cars with obsene amount of torque, my favorite being the good old Viper. Drive that beast, and then every car feels like a Geo Metro.

And then you have cars like GS, 3 series, and bunch of other "sport sedans" that are nowadays dollar a bucket. Unlike the LS or S2000, which are made with a specific purpose with no compromises, these sport sedans are pretty much confused, They are not here, not there, and don't particularly excel in anything. So technically you could say that 330 series outhandles Camry, but then Camry has better ride quality. All other things being about even, with Camry costing less and being a better value, which one is really the better car?

LexFather

Guys can we respect one anothers opinion?
SOme of yall act like YOU go to the track. Kill the "its sportier its better" noise. The Camry excels as an appliance, the 3 series excels as a spots luxury sedan and the X3 doesn't excel at anything (lol).

Och

iTrader: (3)

Mike, as much as I respect you opinion, but where does the 3 series excel as luxury sedan? Camry (fully loaded) is certainly more luxurious than a 3 series.

LexFather

The 3 series blends luxury and sport. I don't expect it to be as luxurious has an ES, which has much less sport. IMO, the 3 still defines the segment even if I am not head over heels over it. Real wood trim, good materials, good fit and finish and IMO it feels "solid", the build is tight.

The Camry believe it or not, can be considered just as luxurious, as non luxury badged cars continue to get better. Fake wood, good fit and finish, good materials, nice feel. IMO, still under a 3 overall. It does a good job as a loaded car and clearly some buyers prefer a loaded, semi-luxury Camry to luxury badged cars.

AzNMpower

This thread has turned into a Toyota versus BMW thread.

I wanted to say somethin, but it's gone off-topic.

doug_999

Good point - I just deleted my reply to Och. It is not worth it.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Talk about leading by example

Threxx

I do go to the track.

mmarshall

The X3, Mike, does excel at two things. Like all BMW products, it has the drive-by-feel-alone superlative steering, and though a little pricey, it is probably the best all-around daily driver that BMW has come up yet with in the American market, particularly if you want something with traction, versatility, and a high enough ground clearance for snows. It will be interesting to see if BMW follows through on rumors of a diesel version here.

The Camry excels at reliability (though some of the new transmissions aren't, and, of course, you have to keep the oil changed on the older 3.0's), all-around competence, and comfortable, smooth, quiet transportation at an affordable price. If that is how one defines the term "appliance" then yes, the Camry is a classic appliance.

You're correct that I don't go to the track. That is not the purpose of my reviews. Most of the people I deal with, and review for, don't race or drive at the track, and are not particularly interested in 0-60, quarter-mile, or slalom/skidpad figures. I DO, however, sample acceleration, braking, and handling within reasonable limits...and local traffic laws. You HAVE to know what a vehicle is like when you push it, or, of course, you can't write it up..... you'll just make a fool of yourself. For those who DO want track and drag-strip figures, of course, magazines like Car and Driver, Road and Track, AUTOMOBILE, and Autoweek will be glad to oblige. In addition, I generally review brand-new vehicle with engines that are not broken in, in average suburban and sometimes semi-rural driving conditions, which is the way most new-car buyers today drive.

UberNoob

once again, another great review

thanks mmarshall

just to plug in my own opinion of the looks, i was driving my dad on the hwy one day and he pointed to an X3 and said who makes that ugly SUV
i said BMW of course

he said "i never knew BMW can make such an ugly car/SUV!"

mmarshall

Well, IMO, there are uglier BMWs on the road than the X3. The Z3 and Z4 coupes, for example, are particularly awkward-looking. But in general, your dad is right.....Chris Bangle's styling hasn't done the company any favors.....it has brought the company a lot of criticism and alienated many former BMW enthusiasts.