Vladi

Lexus will never have high sales in Europe mainly due to number of dealerships, reserved production for US (reason why IS350 is not available in EU) and engine options which are considered very upmarket.
I think that is exactly where Lexus of Europe wants to stay,

TRDFantasy

Agreed. Infiniti has some HUGE challenges to overcome in Europe, bigger challenges than Lexus.

TRDFantasy

You're not looking at the WHOLE perspective. BMW's reputation in Europe as some others have mentioned is not one of a luxury maker, but more of a mainstream maker. BMWs in Europe (for the most part) are thought of on the same level as Citroens, Renaults, Opels, Toyotas. Same thing with Mercedes, where many Benz cars are taxis all over Europe. The only exceptions are the high end parts of BMWs and Benz' lineup.

It's true that Lexus likely will never exceed BMW or Benz in terms of volume in Europe, but the reason for that is very simple ... Lexus won't stoop to the same level and Benz and BMW and offer bargain basement models like the 1 Series or A Class with tiny 4 cyl engines. Lexus most likely will remain exclusively a premium/luxury brand in Europe, which is consistent with what Lexus wants to be maintain in all of it's world markets.

Lexus in the future though could very well overtake the reputation of BMW and Benz in Europe, assuming BMW and Benz continue selling bargain basement models in Europe, and assuming Lexus continues to go upmarket.

speedflex

One thing that can't be overlooked is the difference in the European customer and the American Customer. Cars like the NA Accord and Camry would never sell in volume in Europe because the road infrastructure, driving habits and customer demands are quite different. The typical European car, even the basic econobox, has driving dynamics that absolutely kill the typical North American product. Reason? The emphasis there is more driver-oriented.

Lexus would not succeed in Europe if the products like the ES and RX (the volume sellers and backbone of it's U.S. sales) were it's bread and butter. Lexus still doesn't have the driver credibility of the native brands in Europe. They need products like the IS, GS and LS there to accomplish that.

But Lexus has been a bit player in Europe for years... studying, working out a strategy and testing the waters. But the strategy which worked in America so well... quiet, coddling luxury... will not be the ticket to dominance in Europe. Here is where Infiniti seems a more natural fit in to the European landscape.

Och

iTrader: (3)

LOL, really? Do you personally know any "European Customers"? I don't know if Russia qualifies as Europe, but all the Russians in USA that I know are in love with cars like LS, 7 series, S500, etc, and always says how nice they are compared to noisy, bouncy, gutless European crapboxes.

Well, the truth is, most people in Europe can't even afford Lexus entry level models, such as ES and RX, never mind GS and LS. Anything that doesn't have a 4 cylinder diesel is basically luxury in Europe. And when you have motorized door locks and windows, and heated leather seats, it's almost like a Bentley here.


Time will show. How is Toyota doing in Europe anyways?

Nextourer

He has a point though. European cars are tuned for better driving dynamics. True, most do have 1.0 to 1.5 litre engines but they're fairly well equipped (with a few notable exceptions). Compare the TSX and a 4-cylinder US Accord. That's the kind of difference in suspension setup. Or try the Astra (when it comes over) and compare that the US Focus.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Did you ever drive the TSX? What a bouncy gutless POS. And the Accord version of TSX in Europe is stripped to make it even worse.

LexFather

Now let me say I think the Euro Accord badged as an Acura is laughable, as its FWD and a I-4. Its an Accord, period.

I will say its a fantastic lil car when you get past the badge and realize its a fun lil Honda. Europe really likes it and the diesel Euro Accord (TSX) has gotten rave reviews.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I don't know, but US Accord is a much better car than this Euro Accord, or TSX, or whatever it's suposed to be. Not as good looking, but far more spacy, luxurious, with much nicer ride, and when equipped with the V6, much quieter and more powerful.

speedflex

As a matter of fact I know quite a few European drivers and have spent considerable time on the continent. It's quite a different place altogether as far as the demands they put thier autos through. The driver sensibility is very different from the American driver. Just look at the products. And excuse me but "European crapboxes". Have you really looked at what's available in Europe from a design and engineering standpoint? That statement boggles my mind.

Secondly, I find your statement about most Europeans not being able to afford entry level Lexus (or BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar... hey they're expensive over there too) irrelevant. We're talking upscale buyers and they most certainly can afford anything Lexus has to offer.

Lexus is a great car company and you can bet that they have been doiing some great intel in competing in Europe but let's not get delusional. Europe will be a tougher nut to crack and they will have to adjust thier attack to begin to acomplish there what they did in America.

Faraaz23

I think you're underestimating just what volume we're talking about here.... whether they are premium or not. As of end of April, the year to date sales for the ES350 have been about 24,000 and RX about 30,000. In that same year, Lexus has sold 99,000 total vehicles. There is nothing meaningless about that to me. You can see here, that you'd be giving the axe to over HALF of vehicles sold. Obviously, PLENTY of people out there are still buying them regardless of sharing underpinnings with the camry. Many of those people would not be interested in an IS, GS, or GX instead.

Infiniti wasn't exactly the most successful brand out there when it dropped the I35 and G20. Inifniti back then, and still now, have a long way to go. They had no cohesive theme to their products at that time. Their brand-strength and recognition is no where close to that of Lexus. They did not have nearly as much to lose as Lexus would right now doing that. Infiniti wants to place themselves in the performance, drivers-car niche. Thats why they needed to drop the FWDs. Why should Lexus make such a risky move? They are a company with a completely different philosophy. A solution that works for Nissan, at a moment when they were sitting on shaky financial ground still trying to secure its future survival, will not always apply to a gargantuan like Toyota that has taken over the world.

Nextourer

Yes I have. I don't think an 8 sec car (to 60) with 4 cylinders is gutless. Bouncy? Have YOU sat/driven a TSX? It's anything but bouncy. If anything, it's a little too stiff for my tastes. A Lincoln Town Car is bouncy.

Nextourer

What you said EXACTLY describes the typical American buyer - space, power, luxury, comfort.

The Europeans prefer compact, economical, decent power and a firm ride.

Richie

They won't make it over here. I'm 95% sure.

TRDFantasy

Actually, the RX in Europe *is* one of the core models in terms of sales.