CAR: Infiniti in Europe "A copy of Lexus"
#31
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As a matter of fact I know quite a few European drivers and have spent considerable time on the continent. It's quite a different place altogether as far as the demands they put thier autos through. The driver sensibility is very different from the American driver. Just look at the products. And excuse me but "European crapboxes". Have you really looked at what's available in Europe from a design and engineering standpoint? That statement boggles my mind.
Lexus is a great car company and you can bet that they have been doiing some great intel in competing in Europe but let's not get delusional. Europe will be a tougher nut to crack and they will have to adjust thier attack to begin to acomplish there what they did in America.
#32
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You're not looking at the WHOLE perspective. BMW's reputation in Europe as some others have mentioned is not one of a luxury maker, but more of a mainstream maker. BMWs in Europe (for the most part) are thought of on the same level as Citroens, Renaults, Opels, Toyotas. Same thing with Mercedes, where many Benz cars are taxis all over Europe. The only exceptions are the high end parts of BMWs and Benz' lineup.
#33
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Yes I have. I don't think an 8 sec car (to 60) with 4 cylinders is gutless. Bouncy? Have YOU sat/driven a TSX? It's anything but bouncy. If anything, it's a little too stiff for my tastes. A Lincoln Town Car is bouncy.
What you said EXACTLY describes the typical American buyer - space, power, luxury, comfort.
What you said EXACTLY describes the typical American buyer - space, power, luxury, comfort.
This is where I disagree. Think about it, right now we have an outbreak of sports sedans here in the US, even Caddy and Lexus are making their cars sportier and sporties. Ask yourself, why is that happening? I think it's because the American public got bored of all the car companies making only big, softly spung cars for god knows how many generations, and people want something different. On the contrary, the European public was stuck with only firm riding, small cars with manual trannies, so they wouldn't mind spacy, luxury rides with automatics. This is why the RX is doing so well over there.
#34
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I can assure you BMW IS looked upon as a luxury maker in Europe. There are three main aspirational brands in the UK and Europe and they are Mercedes, BMW and Audi (I'm obviously not counting the likes of RR, Bentley, Aston etc.) Jaguar creep in there to some extent and then VW and Honda head a list that includes Ford, Citroen, GM, FIAT, Toyota, Renault, etc. Lexus still struggle for an identity and are seen as 'posh' Toyotas - if recognised at all.
#35
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I can assure you BMW IS looked upon as a luxury maker in Europe. There are three main aspirational brands in the UK and Europe and they are Mercedes, BMW and Audi (I'm obviously not counting the likes of RR, Bentley, Aston etc.) Jaguar creep in there to some extent and then VW and Honda head a list that includes Ford, Citroen, GM, FIAT, Toyota, Renault, etc. Lexus still struggle for an identity and are seen as 'posh' Toyotas - if recognised at all.
#36
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In any case, back to the topic here. I think that Infiniti does have a great potential in Europe. According to many of the posters here, European drivers are a lot more "sophisticated" than American drivers, and demand higher design and engineering levers in their vehicles. So, unlike American drivers they must be able to see past the badge, and realize that at least the G35, that sells for less than a 328, is a much superior car, and it must sell in droves.
#37
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European drivers are a lot more "sophisticated" than American drivers, and demand higher design and engineering levers in their vehicles. So, unlike American drivers they must be able to see past the badge, and realize that at least the G35, that sells for less than a 328, is a much superior car, and it must sell in droves.
#38
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Well, I don't necessary agree with that, in fact I think that Ghosn, or whoever is in charge of Infiniti understand premium branding very well. Right now Infiniti, unlike Lexus and Acura, does not sell a single rebadged FDW Nissan. They did the right thing by getting rid of I30/35 and G20, and Lexus should do the same with ES350 and RX350. Even though these cars generate sales volume, it's pretty meaningless, as they don't qualify as premium. Of course Infiniti needs a legit flagship, as the old Q45 was a total flop, although IMO it wasn't a bad car at all.
1. Nissans are not big in Europe. Infiniti's will struggle.
2. BMW is huge in Europe - but they sell a lot of "almost" mass market cars. 70% of 3 series sold in Germany are sold to Fleets, at average of 30% discount (same goes for Passats and MB).
So while Lexus will look to up sales in Europe (afterall Lexus doesnt have many dealerships right now, especially outside of main 3-4 countries), they wont ever come close to BMW/Audi sales since they will never compete in every market those brands compete. But thats also Lexus's chance - to appear more luxury oriented...
Infiniti - I dont know where they would start - SUV's sure, but paying premium for unknown brand, I am not so sure... Nissan sales are in free fall right now in Europe.
#39
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Well few things to note:
1. Nissans are not big in Europe. Infiniti's will struggle.
2. BMW is huge in Europe - but they sell a lot of "almost" mass market cars. 70% of 3 series sold in Germany are sold to Fleets, at average of 30% discount (same goes for Passats and MB).
So while Lexus will look to up sales in Europe (afterall Lexus doesnt have many dealerships right now, especially outside of main 3-4 countries), they wont ever come close to BMW/Audi sales since they will never compete in every market those brands compete. But thats also Lexus's chance - to appear more luxury oriented...
Infiniti - I dont know where they would start - SUV's sure, but paying premium for unknown brand, I am not so sure... Nissan sales are in free fall right now in Europe.
1. Nissans are not big in Europe. Infiniti's will struggle.
2. BMW is huge in Europe - but they sell a lot of "almost" mass market cars. 70% of 3 series sold in Germany are sold to Fleets, at average of 30% discount (same goes for Passats and MB).
So while Lexus will look to up sales in Europe (afterall Lexus doesnt have many dealerships right now, especially outside of main 3-4 countries), they wont ever come close to BMW/Audi sales since they will never compete in every market those brands compete. But thats also Lexus's chance - to appear more luxury oriented...
Infiniti - I dont know where they would start - SUV's sure, but paying premium for unknown brand, I am not so sure... Nissan sales are in free fall right now in Europe.
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