Chevy to get a Camry to sell new Malibu (Now Saturn is doing it!! pg. 3)
05-19-07 | 05:32 AM
#31
GM has a reputation for using sub-standard pads and poor-quality metal in the rotors, causing frequent warpage. Still, at 3000 miles, it sounds like on that particular Malibu it was probably more of fluid-leak or master-cylinder problem....brakes are generally not going to wear out at 3000 miles.
Now Ford on the other hand does have a very poor rep on thin rotors and under performing brakes stemming from their late 80's to mid 90's cars and F150's. Again their newer stuff is better but if anyone had a bad rep in the industry on brakes it was all in Fords corner with Toyota sharing the spotlight a bit as well.
On the other issue with GM placing Camrys in their dealerships-cannot comment as I have not seen,driven, nor sat in a 08 Malibu. I can say the 2007 and earlier are absolute cr&p so this should be real interesting. Either they are continuing their usual arrogant attitude or the new Malibu is a drastic departure from their earlier designs.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 05-19-07 at 05:36 AM.
05-19-07 | 05:52 AM
#32
Lexus Champion
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From: Tennessee
No, it's not a heck of an assumption. It means just what it says. Though it is true that some 2007 Camrys (a few cars) have had defective transmissions, compare the Malibu's fit-and-finish, quality of materials, hardware, paint finish, engine/drivetrain smoothness, noise isolation...many different areas.....to a Malibu and you will see for yourself. The only area that GM can really compare to Toyota in is the quality of their A/C systems....up with Toyota/Lexus. The Camry's fugly nose, though, will probably get some Malibu sales when people see them parked side-by-side in the showroom.
Have you tested the all new Malibu? If not then it's "a heck an an assumption" to say any of the above.
And you quote J.D. Power. Consumer Reports is generally a better source for vehicle quality and reliability then Power. CR's evaluation of the Camry is that its repair record has indeed fallen slightly in the last few years, but that it still handily outperforms the Malibu in their overall evaluation.
But again - you're assuming WAY too much unless you've tested the all new Malibu. From all initial reports it's so much of an improvement you'd think it wasn't from the same car company.
05-19-07 | 07:24 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,710
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Once again - we're talking about the all new Malibu.
Have you tested the all new Malibu? If not then it's "a heck an an assumption" to say any of the above.
I know your opinion has always been higher of consumer reports than JD Power. That's your opinion, even though you cite it as fact. But we've been over that one before. My point was if, in your words "we all know"... then where is JD Power getting its not so impressive numbers?
But again - you're assuming WAY too much unless you've tested the all new Malibu. From all initial reports it's so much of an improvement you'd think it wasn't from the same car company.
Have you tested the all new Malibu? If not then it's "a heck an an assumption" to say any of the above.
I know your opinion has always been higher of consumer reports than JD Power. That's your opinion, even though you cite it as fact. But we've been over that one before. My point was if, in your words "we all know"... then where is JD Power getting its not so impressive numbers?
But again - you're assuming WAY too much unless you've tested the all new Malibu. From all initial reports it's so much of an improvement you'd think it wasn't from the same car company.
Though I, in fact, do have a high opinion of Consumer Reports, CR doesn't NEED me, regardless of what one considers opinion or fact, to promote them. Their stellar record speaks for itself....all I do is state the obvious.
The "we all know" that I was saying refers to the fact that most of the auto press, magazines, pundits, auto writers, much of the general public, and the clear majority of us here at CL consider the Camry, overall, to be a substantially better car than the Malibu. It's just a shame that the new Toyota Camry and Yaris grilles are so fugly. (Yes, THAT part is my opiniuon, not necessarily fact. Styling, of course, is a matter of personal taste, and those grilles are not my cup of tea). But I certainly am not alone in my opinion of the Camry grille, and my strong feeling is that, in a Chevy showroom, it do more to help Malibu sales than harm them. The average new-car buyer today, unlike many of us car-saavy people here on CL and CAR CHAT, does not really inspect what he or she is buying under the surface, and often buys on just looks alone.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-19-07 at 07:35 AM.
05-19-07 | 07:28 AM
#34
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Perhaps the best time to compare it to the Camry... is when dealers start putting a Camry on their showfloors for comparison.
05-19-07 | 07:38 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
I think we may need to end the conversation on this, because it seems to be going nowhere fast. For those of you that are judging the quality and appearance of the Malibu, when you haven't even seen it in person yet, I think you need to do so before presenting your thoughts on the subject.
Perhaps the best time to compare it to the Camry... is when dealers start putting a Camry on their showfloors for comparison.
Perhaps the best time to compare it to the Camry... is when dealers start putting a Camry on their showfloors for comparison.
I also disagree that this conversation should be ended. This thread was opened up for EXACTLY that......comparison of the new Camry and Malibu, and discussion on it. If the mods want to end the discussion or close the thread, that, of course, is their perogative...but I see no reason to.
05-19-07 | 07:46 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
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Not sure where you get that information but trust me on this one as I am in the industry and have been for a great many years, GM has a pretty decent reputation for their brakes. They are generally larger than the comparable Toyota and beefy preventing warpage. Only very recently did Toyota step up on their brakes and are now much better vs the brakes they had in the 90's-the new Tundra being a prime example.
You are correct, BTW, that Toyota brakes have improved quite a bit in the last 10-12 years. The brakes on my Lexus IS300 were phenominal....but even they showed a slight amount of warpage by 30,000 miles.
05-19-07 | 10:40 AM
#37
Again, your sources seem very limited. There is a difference between some sources stating that GM has issues with some brakes out there or that they rate their brakes low vs having a bad reputation from bad steel as you put it. Sure a couple models here and there probably have had some warpage but as a whole the GM line over the years had/have more robust brakes than any other car make out there apple to apple. Not saying they are not spongy ,weak, or stop shorter, just that they hold up better than most. I myself am not a GM fan, just stating the facts. GM steel (the industry term for rotors/drums) is very stout compared to others. Not perfect by any means-just not to the degree you stated.
Now my sources is the actual brake manufacturer industry whether it is Bendix, Raybestos, etc... This coupled with the over 10,000+ rotors I have sold to customers both wholesale (shops) and retail and the feedback along with all other industry literature/information received.
Again, not saying they are great brakes in terms of stopping power, feel ,etc.. just that their steel is much stouter and hold up better than most and in no way do they have a bad reputation for poor brakes vs the other makes out there. In order would be Ford the clear winner with Toyota right behind.
Now my sources is the actual brake manufacturer industry whether it is Bendix, Raybestos, etc... This coupled with the over 10,000+ rotors I have sold to customers both wholesale (shops) and retail and the feedback along with all other industry literature/information received.
Again, not saying they are great brakes in terms of stopping power, feel ,etc.. just that their steel is much stouter and hold up better than most and in no way do they have a bad reputation for poor brakes vs the other makes out there. In order would be Ford the clear winner with Toyota right behind.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 05-19-07 at 10:51 AM.
05-25-07 | 01:52 PM
#38
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From: What is G?
GM dealers offer Toyota test drives
Shoppers will be able to compare the Camry and Accord to the Saturn Aura and, shortly, to the new Chevrolet Malibu as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/AUTOS/05/25/...mry/index.html
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you want to test drive a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord, starting next month you'll be able to do it at a Saturn dealership. General Motors is asking Saturn dealers to have one or more of the competing models in the showroom so customers can look at it, sit in it and drive it.
Of course, Saturn dealers can't sell you an Accord or Camry. But they hope that, when you see a Toyota or Honda sedan next to the Saturn Aura, you'll decide to buy the Aura.
"In that side-by-side comparison, we come out really well," said Mark LaNeve, head of North American sales and marketing for General Motors.
Later this year, Chevrolet dealers will be doing the same thing as they introduce customers to the redesigned Chevrolet Malibu, which shares its engineering platform with the Aura.
In focus group research, GM has shown potential customers new GM models next to competing vehicles with all brand identifications removed and, said LaNeve, customers have reacted well to the GM products.
Another advantage for GM dealers in having competing products on site is that customers may not need to set foot in a competing dealership before making a purchase decision.
"I think we can stand up to the comparison," said Wade Hoyt, a Toyota spokesman.
Auto salespeople always research the competition, he said, and prepare advantageous comparisons to offer customers considering another product.
"They talk down the competition all the time," said Hoyt, "so this is just taking it one step further"
According to industry newspaper Automotive News, sales for the Saturn Aura, which was voted Car of the Year by automotive journalists in January, 2007, have been disappointing for GM. So far this year, about 18,000 Auras have been sold, according to Autodata, a company that tracks car sales.
Part of the reason GM is willing to take this step, said LaNeve, is because the company has little to lose. Midsized sedan shoppers often don't even consider GM products, he said, instead going straight to Honda and Toyota dealers.
The Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are now the two best-selling cars in America.
"Over the course of a few years that became the default choice," said LaNeve.
GM has sold about 48,400 of the current version of the Malibu so far this year. Meanwhile, Toyota has sold about 145,000 Camrys.
GM wouldn't even consider doing something like this with its SUVs, said LaNeve. GM currently holds about a 70 percent market share in large SUVs, so there would be little to gain from bringing Toyota Sequoias into Chevrolet dealerships to compare to the Tahoe.
Of course, Saturn dealers can't sell you an Accord or Camry. But they hope that, when you see a Toyota or Honda sedan next to the Saturn Aura, you'll decide to buy the Aura.
"In that side-by-side comparison, we come out really well," said Mark LaNeve, head of North American sales and marketing for General Motors.
Later this year, Chevrolet dealers will be doing the same thing as they introduce customers to the redesigned Chevrolet Malibu, which shares its engineering platform with the Aura.
In focus group research, GM has shown potential customers new GM models next to competing vehicles with all brand identifications removed and, said LaNeve, customers have reacted well to the GM products.
Another advantage for GM dealers in having competing products on site is that customers may not need to set foot in a competing dealership before making a purchase decision.
"I think we can stand up to the comparison," said Wade Hoyt, a Toyota spokesman.
Auto salespeople always research the competition, he said, and prepare advantageous comparisons to offer customers considering another product.
"They talk down the competition all the time," said Hoyt, "so this is just taking it one step further"
According to industry newspaper Automotive News, sales for the Saturn Aura, which was voted Car of the Year by automotive journalists in January, 2007, have been disappointing for GM. So far this year, about 18,000 Auras have been sold, according to Autodata, a company that tracks car sales.
Part of the reason GM is willing to take this step, said LaNeve, is because the company has little to lose. Midsized sedan shoppers often don't even consider GM products, he said, instead going straight to Honda and Toyota dealers.
The Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are now the two best-selling cars in America.
"Over the course of a few years that became the default choice," said LaNeve.
GM has sold about 48,400 of the current version of the Malibu so far this year. Meanwhile, Toyota has sold about 145,000 Camrys.
GM wouldn't even consider doing something like this with its SUVs, said LaNeve. GM currently holds about a 70 percent market share in large SUVs, so there would be little to gain from bringing Toyota Sequoias into Chevrolet dealerships to compare to the Tahoe.
05-25-07 | 02:30 PM
#39
"Part of the reason GM is willing to take this step, said LaNeve, is because the company has little to lose. Midsized sedan shoppers often don't even consider GM products, he said, instead going straight to Honda and Toyota dealers."
05-25-07 | 02:47 PM
#40
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: California
This could totally back fire for GM. Toyota could end up selling even more Camrys and GM could sell the same or less Malibus than projected. Either way I hope they make it fair, comparing a loaded Camry to a loaded Malibu not a basic four cylinder Camry with a totally loaded Malibu...
05-25-07 | 05:13 PM
#41
This could totally back fire for GM. Toyota could end up selling even more Camrys and GM could sell the same or less Malibus than projected. Either way I hope they make it fair, comparing a loaded Camry to a loaded Malibu not a basic four cylinder Camry with a totally loaded Malibu...
05-25-07 | 08:43 PM
#42
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 650
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From: California
I went to 4 different Toyota dealerships looking for a Rav4 for my wife a couple weeks back. All Toyota dealerships were jam packed and there was barely a salesman available on the lot.
Drove by 3 Ford dealerships and 2 Chevy dealership that were near those dealerships. Ghost town. I felt sorry for them for about 2 seconds, then remembered all of their POS cars that were owned by family, friends and myself. But I still do feel for the workers who lost jobs and how entire towns were effected by those.
05-26-07 | 02:33 AM
#43
Lexus Connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 19,802
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From: USA
The 3rd gen Malibu is a huge step up from the previous 2. I've had both 1st and currently 2nd Gen Malibu's as company cars. They are what they are. Nothing exciting about them. The 3rd time must be the charm? We'll have to wait and see.
05-26-07 | 05:51 AM
#44
I don't know, GM did a lot of hyping about the current gen Malibu, but it turned out to be a refrigerator at best. But yeah, GM did a great job rewamping the interior or new Tahoes, etc, so maybe this new Malibu won't be so bad. In any case, Toyota really dropped the ball on the new Camry, it's ugly, and it's not built very well, so if GM wants to take advantage of it, they must act now, before the new Accord come out, because Honda isn't about to drop the ball.
In any case, since GM has the ***** to do this, it means that they are very sure of their products, and we might be in for a surprise.
In any case, since GM has the ***** to do this, it means that they are very sure of their products, and we might be in for a surprise.
Last edited by Och; 05-26-07 at 10:09 AM.
05-26-07 | 10:25 PM
#45
Simply not a great idea, 1st Saturn Aura has to earn the stars and stripes, b/c back in October of 2006 GM expected to sell anywhere from 75,000 to 90,000 Saturn Auras in U.S. & Canada combine(between the time of Nov.2006 to April 2007)....well they sold only 18,000, dealers are finding their Auras sitting on their lots that much longer(being N/A Car of the year did not help at all), then now this new Malibu comes into play this fall. Notice the generic components from both vehicles? As they use the same frame, engine, and interior compnents, so at the end of the day exterior and interior(somewhat) is what's different. Let Toyota con't to do what they do best. While GM the cannibal corporation, let the Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu scrape each other's eyes out
...when will GM ever learn? Funny how they will not even take a Nissan Altima or a Hyundai Sonata into comparison...they should at least try to break their sales numbers 1st before trying to play with the big boys.
...when will GM ever learn? Funny how they will not even take a Nissan Altima or a Hyundai Sonata into comparison...they should at least try to break their sales numbers 1st before trying to play with the big boys.
Last edited by Bercasio; 05-27-07 at 09:01 AM.