Big Andy

In Euorope Toyota is positioning its Daihatsu brand to compete at the lower end of the market with the likes of Kia and Hyundai. Toyota is being pushed into a segment alongside VW & Honda - somewhere between Ford & GM and BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Lexus.

Having said which any Toyota with an engine bigger than 2 litres depreciates like a stone and they have given up with the Camry, there's no market for it.

Nextourer

I assume you mean 1995 and ES300?


hmm, as some mentioned, the Avalon already overlaps the ES350 (esp. in Canada. A loaded Avalon XLS [we don't get the Limited] is Cdn$45k. $45k also buys you a midrange ES350).

Unfortunately in NA, I don't see that happening. There isn't that cache associated with names such as Royal Crown to make it feasible. To the average Joe, they'd rather buy a GS than a Royal Crown.

JAC JZS

Interesting.. heres an idea how about they get rid of the Toyota name altogether and just use Lexus for all Toyota/ Lexus vehicles. Keep scion seperate though.

LexFather

Well this is also the thing in Europe. BMW, Audi and Benz sell Toyota competitors as they continue to go downmarket.
Audi-A2, A3
BMW-1 series, 4 cylinder 3-series
Benz-Smart cars, A class, B class, 4 cylinder C-class


VW just cannot break into the premium market. It seems to be a lot tougher for a company to go up, then to go down. Even some luxury MARQUES have trouble commanding respect and premium pricing.

xioix

The Toyota badges are on the back, all Toyota models have a different front badge (in Japan)

ecr527

I don't think it would be a good idea. Like the others said, there are certain Toyota models that when fully loaded already go for Lexus money. The main thing for buying a Lexus over a Toyota here in the states is brand recognition. Nobody wants to pay 50-60 grand for a car, then have someone pull up next to them in a Yaris or Echo and say that they both have the same brand car. The exception to this rule would probably be if/when they bring back the Supra or Nissan and their GT-R.

marshmallo

I think Toyota is very careful not to make their models steal sales from
Lexus. When I was buying my GS I was seriously considering an Avalon
until I saw all the plastic in the interior and the lousy fitment of doors,
etc... A true disappointment.

Lexus already has trouble selling in the 50-60K mid lux range
and Toyota knows the luxury market will not support another car
without a badge like the Phaeton.

LetMeShowU

No, I meant the 2005 Avalon. I believe it was the first time ever that the power of the Avalon exceeded the power of the ES, thus people thinking Toyota was crazy for essentially overlapping the two cars.


It's funny you mention the Royal Crown. I was actually thinking about such cars as the Crown & the Majesta when starting this thread. My thinking is, if Toyota could sell such high end cars in Japan for years along side more economical vehicles, couldn't they do the same here in the U.S., Canada, & Europe? We know MB & BMW can do it in Europe. So, why couldn't Toyota?

I guess my point is that since Lexus has now pretty gone global as its own separate company, if it would be possible for Toyota to test out more high end vehicles under the Toyota name. From a financial standpoint, I think it could work. Let's say Toyota offers a 45k vehicle similar in many way to the GS, but different enough to have it stand out on its own merits. I could see a situation where someone could be torn between the two, but then eventually decide on one or the other (instead of going with a BMW or Audi or MB). Like I said, at the end of the day Toyota + Lexus = Toyota anyway, so why not?

Maybe now is not the right time for this, as Lexus is still trying to firmly establish itself as a separate entity from Toyota, but in 5-7 years, who knows?

Yes, the prestige factor does play a big role in this as well, especially for the U.S. market, but it's not impossible for Toyota to break through that in time, if their reliability remains solid and they continue to offer vehicles that people want to own.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

If toyota ever sells Crown here, I will be the first one in the line.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is on par with lexus!!!!

Nextourer

ohh ok. I thought you wanted to say right from the moment the Avalon was launched.


Well, it's more of a "home brand" kinda thing with BMW and Mercedes. I mean you can buy a Ford Mondeo (everyday family car) or a 316i or a C180. Which would you get?

I mean in the UK, you can get a Mazdaspeed6 (Mazda6 MPS) for the price of a 318i M Sport. 10 secs vs... how many secs for the Mazdaspeed?

Or how about this for another perspective. Honda and Acura. For years, their prices have overlapped (esp. in Canada when you could buy an Acura for less than a base Accord DX). I realise Acura doesn't have the prestige of a Lexus but you can't ignore the significant overlap.

I realise my reply isn't as coherent as I'd like it to be but yeah if there is enough of a difference, maybe Toyota could sway some buyers. But in order to get Toyota to do that, sales of the Avalon have to improve to show that there is a market for a luxury Toyota.

That and the dealership have to beef up their service. As of now, their customer service is... well I wouldn't say poor. Let's say it's "fair". The service part is fine but it's the way the customer is handled that I wish could be improved.

JAC JZS

Are u referring to the Acura RSX or a model that we dont get here in the US but u get in Canada? Until it was discontinued here(will prob. return as TSX coupe) you could get an Acura(RSX) for less than an Accord LX.

spwolf

why would toyota sell lexus-class cars, when it has... lexus?

spwolf

thats not really true... daithasu is not being positioned in relation to toyota at all... they do their own thing. i would say daithasus are actually way too expensive compared to toyota's.

toyota is going for the middle pricing ground, which is definetly paying off since they did not raise new models pricing a lot, unlike rivals, and result is booming sales in europe....

as to the 2l PETROL engine comment - thats true for all non-luxury brands in europe, and camry was dropped since it was a lot more expensive than a lot more luxurious Avensis. With change of managment, in 2004, Toyota decided to drop all non-europe centric models such as celica, mr2, camry, avensis verso and yaris verso to better concentrate on "core" models for europe.

JAC JZS

Um, they already do sell Lexus class cars

2007 Toyota Land Cruiser - $56k

loaded Sequoia $45k

loaded Tundra- $41k

loaded Toyota 4Runner - $38k

loaded Sienna- $37k

loaded highlander- $36k

loaded avalon - $34k

Camry 50th anniv. hybrid - $32k

loaded Camry XLE V6- $31k

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Price doesn't equal class...