What's wrong with the GS?
06-04-07, 02:17 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
7. People saying its not sporty that have no idea. The 3GS is a sporting drive and if you don't think so, get your head examined. The Steering is not communicative but it is a good handling car. Not sure what the hell some of you expect, a got damn Porsche 911 with 4 doors???
It wasn't sporty. It certainly was no boat. But it was nowhere near the chassis, braking, and handling response and feel of most of the rest of the competition.
Hey, I mean maybe in magazine numbers if pulls the same or better skidpad, slalom, and braking numbers. But that's kinda like how my GS400 ran a 14.7 @ 97 in completely stock form and yet felt substantially slower than my Audi A4 does now (despite quite the opposite being true, in reality).
06-04-07, 02:21 PM
#32
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 2,545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think a simple fact of the matter for the GS is that there is a little too much overlap in the middle of the Lexus sedan line. You have the less expensive but roomier ES hitting it from the bottom end and the much bigger and better LS hitting it from the top end. PLUS you can also get a crisp driving, better looking and slighly smaller IS if you really want a fun-to drive sedan. But the GS's biggest enemy seems to be its brother the ES.
Even within the Lexus line the GS's appeal seems somewhat vague, nevermind how it stacks up against the M35/45, E-class, STS and 5-series.
Even within the Lexus line the GS's appeal seems somewhat vague, nevermind how it stacks up against the M35/45, E-class, STS and 5-series.
06-04-07, 02:30 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
I owned a 2nd gen GS. I had a 3rd gen GS300 fully loaded up for a loaner car for 2 days. I think I even wrote a review about it here on the board.
It wasn't sporty. It certainly was no boat. But it was nowhere near the chassis, braking, and handling response and feel of most of the rest of the competition.
Hey, I mean maybe in magazine numbers if pulls the same or better skidpad, slalom, and braking numbers. But that's kinda like how my GS400 ran a 14.7 @ 97 in completely stock form and yet felt substantially slower than my Audi A4 does now (despite quite the opposite being true, in reality).
It wasn't sporty. It certainly was no boat. But it was nowhere near the chassis, braking, and handling response and feel of most of the rest of the competition.
Hey, I mean maybe in magazine numbers if pulls the same or better skidpad, slalom, and braking numbers. But that's kinda like how my GS400 ran a 14.7 @ 97 in completely stock form and yet felt substantially slower than my Audi A4 does now (despite quite the opposite being true, in reality).
What have you driven in this class to come up to this conclusion? The GS is sporty, period. It is no sports car but its not that far behind the leaders in this class.Never has any comparison said the GS is sloppy, the main complaints were VDIM and the engines were in need of some punch.
Both are now fixed but there hasn't been any recent reviews in this class.
06-04-07, 02:34 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
I was serious when I said the level of 'sport' of the 3rd gen GS is barely even on par with the current V6 Altima.
Of course that's just my opinion... but...
06-04-07, 02:45 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
I've driven the current gen 5-series and E-class. The 5-series stomps the GS in the aforementioned regards. The E-class... not as much so - still sportier but not by as much as the 5-series... though the E-class does have a nice 'vault' like quality to it that is not duplicated by either of the other two.
I was serious when I said the level of 'sport' of the 3rd gen GS is barely even on par with the current V6 Altima.
Of course that's just my opinion... but...
I was serious when I said the level of 'sport' of the 3rd gen GS is barely even on par with the current V6 Altima.
Of course that's just my opinion... but...
I have to chuckle at your comment the GS is barely sportier than an Altima as clearly, you have not driven an Altima. It "looks" sporty and handles like a Kia and if you read any review, you will see it handles barely average. I could not believe how bad this car drove.
You sure you don't mean the GS doesn't look much sportier than an Altima.
06-04-07, 02:47 PM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 1,362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i agree, the suspension feel on a stock GS vs a sport equipped E350 feels more floaty than the E class. I am convinced that if they just paid more attention and offered sport package they would be able to swoon some of the potential buyers of the same class
06-04-07, 02:51 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
Don't get me wrong - the Altima is FAR from an ideal model of ride comfort and handling - but it DOES have the right chassis balance and steering response IMO, especially for this price range of car. I didn't get much of a chance to test out the brakes, though. One of my best friends had the model prior to the new one that just came out with the VQ V6.
I liked everything about that car except for the high interior noise levels and the horrible build quality all around. Two very big problems, for me.
06-04-07, 03:08 PM
#39
For me, I make a distinction between handling and sporty. Many cars have good handling and very respectable performance numbers, but are not sporty. The GS is one of them. It doesn't matter if the car puts down the numbers if the drive doesn't feel sporty. My perspective is the road communication plays a large role. This is the suspension feel, and most importantly the steering feedback.
For me, it really doesn't matter if a GS430/350 can out perform a BMW 525 in every performance category. The BMW 525 would still be a more sporty car in my opinion. I wouldn't buy one over the GS though. My old stock suspension BMW felt more sporty than any modified suspension car I've owned except for the NSX. That doesn't mean my 325 handled better than my modified Integra or even my modified Legend Coupe, but the driving feel and feedback you got from even that stock suspension 325 made you come away with a more sporty feeling. The GS just doesn't have that feeling no matter what performance numbers it puts down.
For me, it really doesn't matter if a GS430/350 can out perform a BMW 525 in every performance category. The BMW 525 would still be a more sporty car in my opinion. I wouldn't buy one over the GS though. My old stock suspension BMW felt more sporty than any modified suspension car I've owned except for the NSX. That doesn't mean my 325 handled better than my modified Integra or even my modified Legend Coupe, but the driving feel and feedback you got from even that stock suspension 325 made you come away with a more sporty feeling. The GS just doesn't have that feeling no matter what performance numbers it puts down.
06-04-07, 03:56 PM
#40
7. People saying its not sporty that have no idea. The 3GS is a sporting drive and if you don't think so, get your head examined. The Steering is not communicative but it is a good handling car. Not sure what the hell some of you expect, a got damn Porsche 911 with 4 doors???
06-04-07, 04:33 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is why.
1. Knock-offs. What was once an original design, is no longer. Every got damn Nissan product including Infiniti took some styling cues from the 2GS. The 3GS came around and its no longer something special.
2. Marketing. The 2GS marketing was incredible. The 3GS marketing was forgetable.
3. Competition. The 2GS was the only serious contender from Japan. Now the Infiniti M35/45 (which is thousands cheaper) and Acura RL are good cars, where before they were hot garbage. The E/5/ heck Volvos, Caddys, everyone in this class has a very good car. Before most were rubbish and you had the GS, E and 5. Not anymore.
4. Awful lease deals. You can get in a BMW 5 or Infiniti M35/45 for the price of an IS 250 lease. GS leases are awful.
5. Size. Lexus barely increased the size of the 3GS. Everyone else has a car in this class that is as big as the old LS 400. Camry's are bigger than the 3GS. The Maxima is bigger than a 3GS. People do like a bigger car.
6. Engines. Lexus, while having a plan with updating engines, came out with average engines initially. I haven't seen a comparo with the GS 350 yet and the GS 460 can't come soon enough.
7. People saying its not sporty that have no idea. The 3GS is a sporting drive and if you don't think so, get your head examined. The Steering is not communicative but it is a good handling car. Not sure what the hell some of you expect, a got damn Porsche 911 with 4 doors???
8. ES/IS. The IS and ES have gotten so good, they are both heavily in GS territory, including base GS price when an IS/ES is loaded. The ES is bigger, the IS sportier and both blend luxury sport. Very tough for the GS.
Overall, while the 3GS has been a double, not a home run but it is producing. He is an earner
While the magazines haven't had oral sex with the GS like some other cars, it more than holds its own. Edmunds for instance picked it over the RL and M45.
I just think while the 2GS was a success, Lexus really had to focus on making the 2IS outstanding and the 4LS outstanding and the GS kind of got lost in the shuffle.
I still plan to probably get one in the future.
1. Knock-offs. What was once an original design, is no longer. Every got damn Nissan product including Infiniti took some styling cues from the 2GS. The 3GS came around and its no longer something special.
2. Marketing. The 2GS marketing was incredible. The 3GS marketing was forgetable.
3. Competition. The 2GS was the only serious contender from Japan. Now the Infiniti M35/45 (which is thousands cheaper) and Acura RL are good cars, where before they were hot garbage. The E/5/ heck Volvos, Caddys, everyone in this class has a very good car. Before most were rubbish and you had the GS, E and 5. Not anymore.
4. Awful lease deals. You can get in a BMW 5 or Infiniti M35/45 for the price of an IS 250 lease. GS leases are awful.
5. Size. Lexus barely increased the size of the 3GS. Everyone else has a car in this class that is as big as the old LS 400. Camry's are bigger than the 3GS. The Maxima is bigger than a 3GS. People do like a bigger car.
6. Engines. Lexus, while having a plan with updating engines, came out with average engines initially. I haven't seen a comparo with the GS 350 yet and the GS 460 can't come soon enough.
7. People saying its not sporty that have no idea. The 3GS is a sporting drive and if you don't think so, get your head examined. The Steering is not communicative but it is a good handling car. Not sure what the hell some of you expect, a got damn Porsche 911 with 4 doors???
8. ES/IS. The IS and ES have gotten so good, they are both heavily in GS territory, including base GS price when an IS/ES is loaded. The ES is bigger, the IS sportier and both blend luxury sport. Very tough for the GS.
Overall, while the 3GS has been a double, not a home run but it is producing. He is an earner
While the magazines haven't had oral sex with the GS like some other cars, it more than holds its own. Edmunds for instance picked it over the RL and M45. I just think while the 2GS was a success, Lexus really had to focus on making the 2IS outstanding and the 4LS outstanding and the GS kind of got lost in the shuffle.
I still plan to probably get one in the future.
A GS redesign was overdue, and at the time Lexus was in a state of change with them becoming organizationally separate from Toyota, getting their own design studio, and introducing L-Finesse. Toyota rushed out the 3GS to market because it was overdue, and because the 3GS is the first L-Finesse car, it understandably looks somewhat bland.
The 3GS was released as more of a transitional model than anything else. New engines for the 3GS were not ready, the new gen Nav unit was not ready ... a lot of things were not ready.
Now here is the interesting thing: the GS hybrid sells very well considering it's production numbers ... and the GS hybrid is achieving high conquest rates from BMW and Mercedes buyers. The reason is that the GS hybrid is unique in the marketplace.
I fully expect the 4GS (and the 3GS in the next two years) to be more competitive.
06-04-07, 05:34 PM
#42
I know that this is a Lexus forum, but seriously sometimes the time spent lapping up kool-aid is surprising to me.
Contrary to what anyone on this forum believes, the 5 Series, E-Class, M, and A6 are all significantly better driving cars than the GS and if you didn't get that impression at the last Taste of Lexus event after driving them back to back, then I don't think there is really any hope for you. Hell, the Mazda 3 is a better driving car than the GS.
Lexus has this terrible "dead" on-center feeling, turning at low speeds is numb and artificial, throttle response is not instant, and when you do try to get aggressive it's quite obvious that the chassis is unwilling. It's ready to hustle, but certainly not prepared to dance. They pumped a considerable amount of sport into the current generation IS and look how successful it has been. The GS is simply a half AS_SED effort on Lexus behalf. The car wasn't given the right engines, features, or hardware at launch, it has had its share of quality problems, it's only marginally larger than the IS inside, and it's more expensive than the larger ES350 and is shy only a few horsepower and has many of the same options. There isn't anything that is "standout" about the GS when considering its competition, even that of it's own brother- the ES. In all honesty, it drives nothing like the E Class, M, 5 Series, or A6 and if you think any differently you need to have your head examined.
Shame too, because the car is very good looking and the interior is beautiful.
All of that said, I do still hope to own a used GS 350 sometime in the next few years. I don't need the extra space and love the styling and engine, and could turn to the aftermarket for suspension parts. As a new car on the lot though, the GS is up against competition that is simply more compelling for similar or less money.
Contrary to what anyone on this forum believes, the 5 Series, E-Class, M, and A6 are all significantly better driving cars than the GS and if you didn't get that impression at the last Taste of Lexus event after driving them back to back, then I don't think there is really any hope for you. Hell, the Mazda 3 is a better driving car than the GS.
Lexus has this terrible "dead" on-center feeling, turning at low speeds is numb and artificial, throttle response is not instant, and when you do try to get aggressive it's quite obvious that the chassis is unwilling. It's ready to hustle, but certainly not prepared to dance. They pumped a considerable amount of sport into the current generation IS and look how successful it has been. The GS is simply a half AS_SED effort on Lexus behalf. The car wasn't given the right engines, features, or hardware at launch, it has had its share of quality problems, it's only marginally larger than the IS inside, and it's more expensive than the larger ES350 and is shy only a few horsepower and has many of the same options. There isn't anything that is "standout" about the GS when considering its competition, even that of it's own brother- the ES. In all honesty, it drives nothing like the E Class, M, 5 Series, or A6 and if you think any differently you need to have your head examined.
Shame too, because the car is very good looking and the interior is beautiful.
All of that said, I do still hope to own a used GS 350 sometime in the next few years. I don't need the extra space and love the styling and engine, and could turn to the aftermarket for suspension parts. As a new car on the lot though, the GS is up against competition that is simply more compelling for similar or less money.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 06-04-07 at 05:41 PM.
06-04-07, 07:16 PM
#43
Just adding 19x8.5 wheels with ultra high performance tires has
made my GS handle MUCH better than stock. It has literally
transformed the car. That is why Lexus needs a sports package
with wider wheels and summer tires in addition to a stiffer
suspension.
Other than that I've always thought the GS was built so that it
would not cannibalize LS sales. Hence the dimensions. I also
agree it looks kinda funny stock. I definitely had to add mods to
this car for it to grow on me. Who knows, maybe the 2008 refresh
may help a bit...
made my GS handle MUCH better than stock. It has literally
transformed the car. That is why Lexus needs a sports package
with wider wheels and summer tires in addition to a stiffer
suspension.
Other than that I've always thought the GS was built so that it
would not cannibalize LS sales. Hence the dimensions. I also
agree it looks kinda funny stock. I definitely had to add mods to
this car for it to grow on me. Who knows, maybe the 2008 refresh
may help a bit...
06-04-07, 07:33 PM
#44
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
7. People saying its not sporty that have no idea. The 3GS is a sporting drive and if you don't think so, get your head examined. The Steering is not communicative but it is a good handling car. Not sure what the hell some of you expect, a got damn Porsche 911 with 4 doors???
From Sept 2005
"The new GS300 is refined, but it's not the luxury sports sedan Lexus pitches; we didn't find it particularly exciting to drive. The Steering lacks feel and the car isn't agile"
"The GS is not very sporty, and has moderate body lean. The steering offers little feedback and feels numb at center. The Lexus reached its handling limits early, and the ESC intervened early to keep it on course."
From April 2006
"Lexus redesigned its GS sedan with the goal of making it sportier, but fell short"
"Although handling is secure, it isn't as engaging as its competitors"
06-04-07, 08:14 PM
#45
I know that this is a Lexus forum, but seriously sometimes the time spent lapping up kool-aid is surprising to me.
Contrary to what anyone on this forum believes, the 5 Series, E-Class, M, and A6 are all significantly better driving cars than the GS and if you didn't get that impression at the last Taste of Lexus event after driving them back to back, then I don't think there is really any hope for you. Hell, the Mazda 3 is a better driving car than the GS.
Lexus has this terrible "dead" on-center feeling, turning at low speeds is numb and artificial, throttle response is not instant, and when you do try to get aggressive it's quite obvious that the chassis is unwilling. It's ready to hustle, but certainly not prepared to dance. They pumped a considerable amount of sport into the current generation IS and look how successful it has been. The GS is simply a half AS_SED effort on Lexus behalf. The car wasn't given the right engines, features, or hardware at launch, it has had its share of quality problems, it's only marginally larger than the IS inside, and it's more expensive than the larger ES350 and is shy only a few horsepower and has many of the same options. There isn't anything that is "standout" about the GS when considering its competition, even that of it's own brother- the ES. In all honesty, it drives nothing like the E Class, M, 5 Series, or A6 and if you think any differently you need to have your head examined.
Shame too, because the car is very good looking and the interior is beautiful.
All of that said, I do still hope to own a used GS 350 sometime in the next few years. I don't need the extra space and love the styling and engine, and could turn to the aftermarket for suspension parts. As a new car on the lot though, the GS is up against competition that is simply more compelling for similar or less money.
Contrary to what anyone on this forum believes, the 5 Series, E-Class, M, and A6 are all significantly better driving cars than the GS and if you didn't get that impression at the last Taste of Lexus event after driving them back to back, then I don't think there is really any hope for you. Hell, the Mazda 3 is a better driving car than the GS.
Lexus has this terrible "dead" on-center feeling, turning at low speeds is numb and artificial, throttle response is not instant, and when you do try to get aggressive it's quite obvious that the chassis is unwilling. It's ready to hustle, but certainly not prepared to dance. They pumped a considerable amount of sport into the current generation IS and look how successful it has been. The GS is simply a half AS_SED effort on Lexus behalf. The car wasn't given the right engines, features, or hardware at launch, it has had its share of quality problems, it's only marginally larger than the IS inside, and it's more expensive than the larger ES350 and is shy only a few horsepower and has many of the same options. There isn't anything that is "standout" about the GS when considering its competition, even that of it's own brother- the ES. In all honesty, it drives nothing like the E Class, M, 5 Series, or A6 and if you think any differently you need to have your head examined.
Shame too, because the car is very good looking and the interior is beautiful.
All of that said, I do still hope to own a used GS 350 sometime in the next few years. I don't need the extra space and love the styling and engine, and could turn to the aftermarket for suspension parts. As a new car on the lot though, the GS is up against competition that is simply more compelling for similar or less money.