What's wrong with the GS?
06-05-07, 07:47 AM
#61
Lexus Test Driver
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the GS maintains traditional Lexus points but that isn't enough to make it a strong alternative to the the 5er and Eclass.
The 5er is important to BMW, and the Eclass is the primary profit vehicle at Mercedes. Competing in this segment requires more work than Lexus is willing to commit.
The IS is essentially the same as the GS and why bother w/the GS when the LS is a far superior vehicle for an easily justified additional cost.
Lets not forget all the reliablitiy issues that plauged the 06 GS and its high lease rates.
The 5er is important to BMW, and the Eclass is the primary profit vehicle at Mercedes. Competing in this segment requires more work than Lexus is willing to commit.
The IS is essentially the same as the GS and why bother w/the GS when the LS is a far superior vehicle for an easily justified additional cost.
Lets not forget all the reliablitiy issues that plauged the 06 GS and its high lease rates.
06-05-07, 08:03 AM
#62
Super Moderator
What instantly put the GS off my shopping list was the space. I'm 6'4", and with the seat all the way down, I can't see out the windshield. Well I can, but I wouldn't be able to see anything more than 100' away, the roofline is so low. My little 323i has significantly more interior room and MUCH better sightlines than the GS, which is meant to compete with the 5-series. I'd take the LS over the GS any day, in fact it'd be my first choice among flagships. But even assuming I could actually see out of it, the GS would still be my 4th choice among "executive" or "sport" sedans...behind the 5er, A6, and M35/45. I'd put it above the E-class just because I'm not a fan of Mercedes.
06-05-07, 08:26 AM
#64
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It is related, the GS does still sell b/c some people would not be seen a some cars/brands that have the image and prestige of a bus token. The GS hit first year sales targets, barely missed 2nd year and with NO LEASE deals, is still the THIRD BEST seller in its class. That is commendable.
The GS has the 450h, there is NO other car like it, no other RWD hybrid car that makes 340hp and does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds getting 23 MPG.
Yep, this was mentioned. The GS is very coupelike with its interior design and while everyone else has a bigger interior, the GS is smaller in comparison.
The GS has the 450h, there is NO other car like it, no other RWD hybrid car that makes 340hp and does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds getting 23 MPG.
What instantly put the GS off my shopping list was the space. I'm 6'4", and with the seat all the way down, I can't see out the windshield. Well I can, but I wouldn't be able to see anything more than 100' away, the roofline is so low. My little 323i has significantly more interior room and MUCH better sightlines than the GS, which is meant to compete with the 5-series. I'd take the LS over the GS any day, in fact it'd be my first choice among flagships. But even assuming I could actually see out of it, the GS would still be my 4th choice among "executive" or "sport" sedans...behind the 5er, A6, and M35/45. I'd put it above the E-class just because I'm not a fan of Mercedes.
06-05-07, 08:28 AM
#65
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One other point, the GS also has trouble in Japan b/c the Toyota Crown has so much heritage and prestige (been around 40 years) and is on par with luxury, looks, space etc.
Poor GS
it does have a lot of challenges. I am sure Lexus will learn and make the 4GS a home run like the 2GS.
Poor GS
it does have a lot of challenges. I am sure Lexus will learn and make the 4GS a home run like the 2GS.
06-05-07, 08:38 AM
#66
I don't think anyone really stated that the sole problem was that the car isn't sporty. In fact looking back on this thread, most complaints are concerning the larger sized, similarly featured and yet less expensive ES, cramped interior, and weak engine choices.
People, myself included, made a few editorial comments about the car not being as sporty or as pleasant of a drive as the 5 Series, A6, M, or E, to which you disagreed, which has triggered the last two pages of this entire discussion.
Moreover, I feel like everyone on this board makes it a point to go to the Taste of Lexus event every year when possible, and that is probably the hardest driving that any Lexus will ever see. Still, I'm puzzled as to why Lexus chooses the 5 Series and E Class to compare with the GS because both are better driving cars. The E Class has similar driving characteristics, but has more communicative steering than the GS, whereas the 5 series will literally drive circles around it. These differences are clearly evident after driving all three back to back.
People, myself included, made a few editorial comments about the car not being as sporty or as pleasant of a drive as the 5 Series, A6, M, or E, to which you disagreed, which has triggered the last two pages of this entire discussion.
Moreover, I feel like everyone on this board makes it a point to go to the Taste of Lexus event every year when possible, and that is probably the hardest driving that any Lexus will ever see. Still, I'm puzzled as to why Lexus chooses the 5 Series and E Class to compare with the GS because both are better driving cars. The E Class has similar driving characteristics, but has more communicative steering than the GS, whereas the 5 series will literally drive circles around it. These differences are clearly evident after driving all three back to back.
06-05-07, 09:04 AM
#67
The steering is not communicative, I do agree.
Too many people in this thread are basing thier opinion on the GS without putting it through its paces accusing others of sipping kool-aid but they are the ones serving it.
GO MAG/INTERNET RACERS!!!
GO MAG/INTERNET RACERS!!!
Do ya'll know why Benz and BMW sells so many 5s and E classes?
1. Lease deals
2. Many different configurations, including wagons
3. Established and still the benchmarks for this class. They have been around for DECADES..
1. Lease deals
2. Many different configurations, including wagons
3. Established and still the benchmarks for this class. They have been around for DECADES..
06-05-07, 09:04 AM
#68
Super Moderator
One other point, the GS also has trouble in Japan b/c the Toyota Crown has so much heritage and prestige (been around 40 years) and is on par with luxury, looks, space etc.
Poor GS it does have a lot of challenges. I am sure Lexus will learn and make the 4GS a home run like the 2GS.
Poor GS it does have a lot of challenges. I am sure Lexus will learn and make the 4GS a home run like the 2GS.
Still , I think it's the success of the rest of the models in the Lexus line-up that makes the GS looks like the weakest among them. I don't think the 3GS is doing that badly, given their initial goal is 30K units per year in the US. They managed to exceed that slightly in the first year, but cannot maintain it in the second (I think it's averaging about 2k per month in the past year). That's not too bad without a V8, & the GS450h is a limited production car plus many are not ready to get a hybrid, it's a niche car.
I don't think Lexus cares about pushing the sales of GS with the poor lease rates they offer, I think their philosophy is to scale back production of a model if demand is not high rather than pushing as many as possible out the door with incentives thru attractive lease deals.
06-05-07, 09:28 AM
#70
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Personally I love the look of the 3GS and wouldn't mind owning one. But let's not kid ourselves... its NOT a sporty ride. It is a great car and accomplishes what Lexus does well, which is a high-quality, reliable and luxurious car. There's nothing wrong with that! But when you are competing in the SPORTS SEDAN market there is no comparison w/ the 5er, M or E class. Why do you want Lexus to become BMW or Infiniti? Different brands for different markets. Lets be real... Lexus did not become what it is today by building great handling cars.
06-05-07, 09:35 AM
#71
Super Moderator
"Residuals" in leases does not necessarily equate actual resale value. Some companies will give a certain "residual" in their lease, but yet for those who did not lease but actually bought the car & want to sell it back to manufacturer for a new car, they won't give those customers anything close to the "residuals" they list on the leases of the exact same model.
The IS250/350 are listed by a couple sources as the top in it's class in resale value(I think we had a thread on that), yet their lease rates are still poor comparatively.
The IS250/350 are listed by a couple sources as the top in it's class in resale value(I think we had a thread on that), yet their lease rates are still poor comparatively.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 06-05-07 at 09:52 AM. Reason: typo
06-05-07, 11:03 AM
#72
Clearly most in this thread simply have not driven this car HARD. It drives STOCK how the 2GS drives with TRD sways, which some of us know is a night and day difference.
The steering is not communicative, I do agree.
Too many people in this thread are basing thier opinion on the GS without putting it through its paces accusing others of sipping kool-aid but they are the ones serving it.
GO MAG/INTERNET RACERS!!!
Bottom line is a sportier GS is not the total solution, it is really only a small part of the overall challenges this car is facing. However, you kids only are posting the same redundant thoughts. "Lexus isn't sporty".
Do ya'll know why Benz and BMW sells so many 5s and E classes?
1. Lease deals
2. Many different configurations, including wagons
3. Established and still the benchmarks for this class. They have been around for DECADES..
The steering is not communicative, I do agree.
Too many people in this thread are basing thier opinion on the GS without putting it through its paces accusing others of sipping kool-aid but they are the ones serving it.
GO MAG/INTERNET RACERS!!!
Bottom line is a sportier GS is not the total solution, it is really only a small part of the overall challenges this car is facing. However, you kids only are posting the same redundant thoughts. "Lexus isn't sporty".
Do ya'll know why Benz and BMW sells so many 5s and E classes?
1. Lease deals
2. Many different configurations, including wagons
3. Established and still the benchmarks for this class. They have been around for DECADES..
There are often comparos in magazines that say X car handles almost as well as Y car. But the reality of it is, if you take a regular Joe and put him in a Lexus GS vs. a BMW 5, I will put my money on his laptimes with the BMW 5. The GS is not confidence inspiring at all. Near limit it is a totally different car than the BMW 5. Some cars are easier to drive fast, some aren't. I know this partly because I was a S2000 owner.
Repeat after me: Lexus is not Sporty. At least not in my book. BMW is CLEARLY designed to be a more sporty car than Lexus. This doesn't make the Lexus any worse of a car, it just really isn't sporty.
06-05-07, 11:05 AM
#73
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Family has a GS350. I like it but the thing drives like a boat. I've pushed it. I've pushed our and I have also pushed it at the Taste of Lexus.
There are often comparos in magazines that say X car handles almost as well as Y car. But the reality of it is, if you take a regular Joe and put him in a Lexus GS vs. a BMW 5, I will put my money on his laptimes with the BMW 5. The GS is not confidence inspiring at all. Near limit it is a totally different car than the BMW 5. Some cars are easier to drive fast, some aren't. I know this partly because I was a S2000 owner.
Repeat after me: Lexus is not Sporty. At least not in my book. BMW is CLEARLY designed to be a more sporty car than Lexus. This doesn't make the Lexus any worse of a car, it just really isn't sporty.
There are often comparos in magazines that say X car handles almost as well as Y car. But the reality of it is, if you take a regular Joe and put him in a Lexus GS vs. a BMW 5, I will put my money on his laptimes with the BMW 5. The GS is not confidence inspiring at all. Near limit it is a totally different car than the BMW 5. Some cars are easier to drive fast, some aren't. I know this partly because I was a S2000 owner.
Repeat after me: Lexus is not Sporty. At least not in my book. BMW is CLEARLY designed to be a more sporty car than Lexus. This doesn't make the Lexus any worse of a car, it just really isn't sporty.
Lexus CAN be sporty. Again, I am not saying the GS is sportiest in class but for those of you saying its like some got damn Town Car need to get your heads examined. PERIOD. You are a S2000 owner, clearly most ANY car will be a boat to you. I drove one just last week, it makes any sedan feel like the titanic.
06-05-07, 11:07 AM
#74
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So again guys, I am NOT saying the GS is sportiest in class but I am saying it is sporty and can hold its own.
Again, it IS the 3rd best selling car in its class. It has many challanges and obstacles, some it is Lexus OWN fault.
It is not the got damn Hummer to drive like some of you think ALL LEXUS are.
Get your magazine biased heads out the sand.
Again, it IS the 3rd best selling car in its class. It has many challanges and obstacles, some it is Lexus OWN fault.
It is not the got damn Hummer to drive like some of you think ALL LEXUS are.
Get your magazine biased heads out the sand.
06-05-07, 11:09 AM
#75
LOL.
I will agree that the GS is not like a Town Car but to me it did feel like a boat when comparing it to the 5. I did drive them back to back at the Taste of Lexus. I must note, the 5 series tires were overinflated too. Kudos to Lexus for providing the cars.
We can agree to disagree on our definitions of "Sporty." You coming from another GS, me coming from a Sports Car/Roadster/No frills S2000.
I will agree that the GS is not like a Town Car but to me it did feel like a boat when comparing it to the 5. I did drive them back to back at the Taste of Lexus. I must note, the 5 series tires were overinflated too. Kudos to Lexus for providing the cars.
We can agree to disagree on our definitions of "Sporty." You coming from another GS, me coming from a Sports Car/Roadster/No frills S2000.