mmarshall

Here it is. I found the new ES350's nice paint job, smooth drivetrain, and interior quietness comparable to the old car's, but other than that, IMO, the car was a disappointment....the interior build quality, amount of wood trim, and sheet metal were all sub-par compared to the old car, and the suspension and tires were both firmed up unnecessarily....one of the outstanding features of the old car was its smooth ride.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...iew+2007+es350

ff_

See, that's one thing I would've wanted on the ES330. The ES330 floats and wallows like a drunk elephant. It also tests the driver constantly by drifting all over the roadway (...like a drunk elephant). I'd take the stiffer suspension and better tires anyday.

This could be the reason why they firmed things up.

mmarshall

No. The auto world doesn't NEED any more sports sedans....they are literally everywhere today. Lexus aleady has the sport-sedan market covered with the IS, especially the IS350, and GS. The ES is supposed to be a soft, floating car for those who cannot otherwise afford the LS. The ES330 did the job beautifully. The ES350, compared to it, IMO in some ways is a piece of junk.

The general trend in the auto world has lately been to stiffer underpinnings and lower-profile tires.....if that's what you want, there are PLENTY of vehicles like that out there for for the pickings. So why did Lexus have to screw up one of its last truly comfortable-riding cars.

My point is.....if you would personally rather have a car that handles like a gazelle than an elephant, fine.....there are plenty of them. But don't screw up the elephants for the people who LIKE them.

ff_

Is the new ES really that stiff though? I have a hard time believing that they turned it into a sports car. And if they have, I might have to consider trading the ES330 in for one.

mmarshall

No, to be honest, it's still not a Mazda Miata or Honda S2000 in ride stiffness, but it IS noticeably stiffer and distinctly less comfortable on anything but glass-smooth roads. That is a result of additional suspension firmness and new, lower-profile tires in this year's model....they were dropped from 60 to 55.

ff_

I may have to go test drive one. If I have to choose between driving dynamics and the level of interior luxury, driving dynamics wins every time.

Mr Johnson

Try and remember that 30 years from now.

ff_

LOL, true.

although, I don't think it'll take 30 more years for my back and joints to start going all to heck, requiring the use of a fluffy-suspensioned car. That process has already begun at the ripe old age of 36.

LexBob2

I had an '03 Avalon XLS that handled like that. On straight roads it was OK, but on everything else it all over the place and needed constant corrections. IMO the ES350 is noticeably more buttoned down, handles better without any big sacrifice in ride quality. Not a sports sedan, but more driveable.

mmarshall

If it is BMW-type driving dynamics you want, then my advice is to forget the ES and first go check out the new IS......it is a purpose-designed sports sedan to start with. The ES350, though distinctly more sports-sedan-like than the ES330, is still not a true BMW-fighter....but is just stiff enough to be annoying to those who liked the superb ES330.

However, of course, at the Lexus dealer, you can test-drive both the ES and the various IS250/350 models and decide which one fits your needs best......only you can determine that. I have posted, on CL, formal reviews of both the ES350 and the IS250AWD, if it will help any.

If traction is an issue, the IS comes in an AWD 250 form, though its power level, with the smaller engine and weight/drag of AWD will be MUCH lower than the RWD IS350. The AWD IS250 (and all second-generation IS models) has 45-series rubber, though, which will give you the handling you want, but will also compromise the AWD traction on slippery surfaces...in general, the lower the profile and the wider the tires, all other things equal, the poorer the traction on slippery surfaces. That's why the Subaru WRX/STi and Mitsubishi Evo, with their stock dry-pavement high-performance tires, are not as good in snow as other AWD Subaru and Mitsubishi products unless you put all-season or winter rubber on them.

mmarshall

(Sorry, mods.....I guess we are a little off-topic, but I wanted to help address ff's questions)

Gojirra99

He HAD an IS250 & didn't keep it for long

No more OT posts please, You guys can take it to pm if you like . . .

mmarshall

Yeah....I considered a new IS myself, but was unsatisfied with several features of the new IS series, even with the addition of AWD.

We'll go PM if any more discussion is required, but ff is a pretty sharp guy ...I'm sure he can shop for himself.

LexBob2

ff, if you do take a test drive, let us know your thoughts afterwards. I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

LexFather

I agree 100% and said so in my reviews of the ES 330 and ES 350. The ES 350 drives worlds better while still remaining somewhat plush. The ES 330/Avalon drive like Buicks/Lincolns, which clearly is not a bad thing since they sell so well, people want that type of ride still.