G37 vs 335i in Motortrend, and the winner isn't the BMW...(+TCC's Road Test of G37)
06-25-07, 12:18 PM
#16
Lexus Champion
Are you saying that you suspect the G37 might not perform respectably on the track like a 335i would?
By the way, there's some difference in handling between the sport and nonsport, but in my opinion (I drove both) it's not a huge difference. In fact the most noticeable difference to me was the steering wheel... runner up being a little less lean in turns. You could track the G37 and 335i sport or nonsport... no problems with any of them.
06-25-07, 12:19 PM
#17
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06-25-07, 12:34 PM
#18
What kind of question is that? You can track a Toyota Corolla off the showroom floor if you want to!
Are you saying that you suspect the G37 might not perform respectably on the track like a 335i would?
By the way, there's some difference in handling between the sport and nonsport, but in my opinion (I drove both) it's not a huge difference. In fact the most noticeable difference to me was the steering wheel... runner up being a little less lean in turns. You could track the G37 and 335i sport or nonsport... no problems with any of them.
Are you saying that you suspect the G37 might not perform respectably on the track like a 335i would?
By the way, there's some difference in handling between the sport and nonsport, but in my opinion (I drove both) it's not a huge difference. In fact the most noticeable difference to me was the steering wheel... runner up being a little less lean in turns. You could track the G37 and 335i sport or nonsport... no problems with any of them.
Perhaps I should be more concise. Would the G35 suspension components, wheel studs, brake components hold up after a track session? BMW suspension components, wheel studs, etc hold up like a champ.. Can the same be said of the G35/G37?
06-25-07, 12:34 PM
#19
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So can somebody describe a little better to me exactly the problem that occurred and was it on ALL 335i models made before a certain date or only some? Also after this march 'switch over' in production, was the problem fixed for ALL models or only some?
I'd be leasing if I got the 335i, though, so I wouldn't care too much unless it did it annoyingly often.
I wouldn't plan on tracking the car except maybe a trip or two to the 1/4-mile track for giggles...
I'm considering the G37 as well - but the lease rates have to be good...
I'd be leasing if I got the 335i, though, so I wouldn't care too much unless it did it annoyingly often.
I wouldn't plan on tracking the car except maybe a trip or two to the 1/4-mile track for giggles...
I'm considering the G37 as well - but the lease rates have to be good...
The "oil cooler" is actually a secondary air to oil cooler located in the passenger side front fender, it is an inline cooler (input and output) direct into the oil filter. After the oil in the car reaches a certain temp (ie: is warmed up) the oil cooler starts pumping; it's just to keep the oil cool (since the oil cools the turbos) simple enough.
Now, all 335i's sold everywhere int he world have this cooler *EXCEPT* in North America. When cars started being sold here all MANUAL TRANS cars with sport package had them. All non sport cars and all autos did not have the cooler. No one knows why. Now, this wouldn't be a problem if some of the cars didn't start overheating. AFAIK there have been ~10 confirmed reports of overheating 335is (by overheat I mean limp mode, 322F oil temp). 1 was the one from the initial G37 reviews, which sort of brought the issue to light. How do you get one to overheat? You run it in a very high rpm range for extended periods in a hot environment. Like I said, I have not managed to overheat mine on 100F days on a track, however I have seen it done on a dyno (purposely).
In March BMW started putting the oil cooler in *all* cars with sport package, so all autos and manuals with option zsp. Non zsp cars still do not have them. BMW will retrofit the cooler if you complain (ask me how I know, I was offered the cooler but havent taken them up on it yet). A number of people in the US have had it fitted successfully.
I presume in '08 all 335i's will have the cooler, but who knows. For every day driving I can all but promise you you'll never need it, it's harder to overheat them than some like to make out. Not defending them, just being honest. I've run my car on the 1/4 mile probably 40 times, no issues at all. You could do it 10000 times in a row and the cooldown in between would be more than enough to keep you out of limp mode. The only time temps hit 280+ is extended high rpm use in a non oil cooler equipped car.
Now, since you're looking at the car the *real* issue to be concerned with is the high pressure secondary fuel pump. It's a brand new design and the initial batch were bad, so about 1% of 335i's had to have them replaced (1% is a lot). They have it sorted out now (we think), but if you get a pre-march car it might have a bad fuel pump.
Otherwise the car has been a very reliable rollout. Better than my G35, ironically (dont tell the G guys I said that
)DASHOCKER - I don't see why not. My '03 sedan tracked very well right stock. The brakes did fade, but no more than most other "sports sedans". My 335i tracks better (obv), but I think the G37 will track fine in any trim.
06-25-07, 12:42 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
Thanks for the info picus!
As far as I've ever heard - yes.
And apparently as an added bonus the motor doesn't overheat in the G, either!
By the way - what do you mean wheel studs? How often do you hear of a wheel stud failing on a car that is being tracked? I know it has happened before, but often enough that it'd be a consideration for a car that you occasionally take to the track?
There's about 50 other things I'd be more concerned about then wheels studs... personally...
LoL..That Corolla would end up in the grand stands at turn 1. Perhaps I should be more concise. Would the G35 suspension components, wheel studs, brake components hold up after a track session? BMW suspension components, wheel studs, etc hold up like a champ.. Can the same be said of the G35/G37?
Perhaps I should be more concise. Would the G35 suspension components, wheel studs, brake components hold up after a track session? BMW suspension components, wheel studs, etc hold up like a champ.. Can the same be said of the G35/G37?And apparently as an added bonus the motor doesn't overheat in the G, either!
By the way - what do you mean wheel studs? How often do you hear of a wheel stud failing on a car that is being tracked? I know it has happened before, but often enough that it'd be a consideration for a car that you occasionally take to the track?
There's about 50 other things I'd be more concerned about then wheels studs... personally...
06-25-07, 12:45 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Not if you were going slow enough 
Ok, about the topic, yea BMW's are a better car when their not in the shop, we all know this, thing is this a magazine test so they dont keep the cars, its a 1day-2day test thats it. I havent read the article yet nor do i need to, i'll spend my money on the G and recomend the BMW to others cuz it is a better car. I just wont buy one with MY MONEY.
Ok, about the topic, yea BMW's are a better car when their not in the shop, we all know this, thing is this a magazine test so they dont keep the cars, its a 1day-2day test thats it. I havent read the article yet nor do i need to, i'll spend my money on the G and recomend the BMW to others cuz it is a better car. I just wont buy one with MY MONEY.
06-25-07, 12:50 PM
#23
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it says the bandwidth has been exceeded, but that red g37 sure does look good
06-25-07, 12:56 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Imageshack sure is getting hit big time by the huge waves of viewers of the comparo.Good win for the G37.
EDIT: Oh the images are back online.
Last edited by XeroK00L; 06-25-07 at 01:10 PM.
06-25-07, 01:29 PM
#25
Super Moderator
2008 Infiniti G37 Road Test
2008 Infiniti G37 Road Test
A lesson in seduction.
by TCC Team (2007-06-25)
by Rex Roy
Diving into a right-left-right downhill combination at Barber Motorsports Park just outside of Birmingham, Alabama , lots of things snap into focus. First, the 14-inch front rotors on the 2008 G37 Sport really burn off speed in a hurry. Second, the entire package is well balanced and just plain easy to drive quickly and smoothly. Third, the 2007 BMW 335i coupe provided for comparison may have some advantages over the Infiniti, but you'll notice more of the BMW's deficiencies (rather than advantages) on the track.
The last thing: it's nice to take turns. As in, let someone else drive after a few hours. They'll appreciate it.
Not out of whole cloth
Infiniti introduced their G35 coupe back in 2002 as a 2003 model. Those with a keen mind for the ephemeral recall it was introduced with its four-door counterpart the G35 sedan, and that the market warmed to the coupe as a more mature alternative to its shorter-wheelbase two-seat cousin, the Nissan 350Z. Sales for Infiniti's 2+2 regularly outpaced seasoned competitors such as the Audi TT, the Mercedes C-Class coupes, and the G's arch nemesis, the BMW 3-Series coupe.
At the 2008 G37's introduction, it became clear that Infiniti wanted to improve the G, but not stray too far from their winning formula. There's a reason why the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," is an old saying.
In a disclosure that meant to give the press a peek inside the minds of development engineers, the Infiniti team referred to the G37 as "The Seductress." Everything they did was designed to make the new coupe sexier and more … ahem … capable of plying her trade. Thankfully, no collagen or silicone was used in the revamp.
A little more G-whiz
Infiniti offers three different flavors of G37; the base, the Journey, and the Sport. Following the pattern Infiniti employed when they introduced their new G35 sedan earlier this year, the team added more power and technology to their new coupe. The 2008 G rides on an improved version of the FM platform utilizing the same 112.2-inch wheelbase as the original.
The chassis itself it stiffer (by 36 percent), as are the front and rear sub-frames (45 percent) on to which the suspension components mount. Up front are double wishbones and a multi-link arrangement brings up the rear. Both ends get stabilizer bars. At the corners are some massive disc brakes. Base models get 13-inch platters all around, while 14-inch (front) and 13.8-inch units are used on the Sport 6MT variant. Covering the discs are aluminum 18-inch rims on the base, and 19-inch rims for the Sport 6MT. Directing all of this high technology is a rack-and-pinion steering gear with electric, as opposed to hydraulic, assist.
The old G35 coupe's V-6 was no boat anchor-it made 275 horsepower. Infiniti could have taken the easy way and just used the all-new engine they designed for the 2007 G35 sedan. But they didn't. They went bigger. The 2008 coupe's motor, while based on the 2007 sedan's, got an increase in stroke of 0.2 liters. Horsepower now reaches 330 at 7,000 rpm. This is 24 more than the 2007 G35 sedan, and a full 55 more than the outgoing 2007 G35 coupe. Redline for the 2008 coupe's V-6 VQ37VHR engine is 7,500 rpm. Torque peaks at 5,200 with a twisting force of 270 lb-ft.
Along with the requisite overhead cams and four valves per cylinder, the 3.7-liter V-6 features variable valve timing and variable valve lift. An interesting technical fact is that with variable valve lift, there is no need for a traditional throttle body to modulate the air coming into the engine. The varying throw of intake valves now handle all that. (That's along way from butterfly valves on carburetors, eh?)
Two transmissions back the 3.7-liter V-6; a five-speed automatic and a six-speed manual. While neither sets new benchmarks for gears, gadgetry or gimmicks, they both work well. Compared to earlier G-coupes, the six-speed's linkage has been improved for smoother, more accurate throws. The automatic received new electronic controls that help the box shift smarter, especially on the track where the downshift rev-matching helps keep the chassis balanced and the engine in the power band.
While the 2008 G37's chassis already meets high standards for spec-sheet gurus, Infiniti added the option of 4-Wheel Active Steer (4WAS). Intended to add stability during quick maneuvers at highway speeds, the 4WAS turns the rear wheels in-phase (the same direction) as the fronts up to 1 degree. For most drivers, the addition of 4WAS will be something to brag about while bench racing because the effect is something most people won't ever genuinely notice.
Putting the lateral G in the G37
We concentrated our time in the well-equipped Journey with an automatic and 4WAS, and a Sport 6MT non-4WAS. We accumulated seat time in both models over public roads and on the road course at Barber Motorsports Park . While Infiniti offers much infotainment for those so inclined, we were more interested in the smooth exhaust note and the suppleness that the suspension exhibited over varying road surfaces. Over the road both cars are quiet and quick.
Then things heated up on the track. Getting familiar with the technically-drawn track required a good dozen laps, then we could actually pay attention to the nuances of the new G. First, the full-equipped Journey was smooth…like, Sade on the rocks smooth. While the car acquitted itself well with the transmission in Drive, using the Sport mode improved the automatic's performance-downshifting quickly when braking, holding gear through corners, and upshifting higher in the rev range when exiting. The system also provides paddle shifters that allowed drivers to easily click-shift quickly and with a welcome absence of roughness.
Handling mimics the auto gearbox, quick and smooth. Transitions through corners are well managed and there's no bobbing and weaving as you stop accelerating and begin braking or vise versa. The chassis feels quite neutral, and especially with the 4WAS, even really provocative driving could not cause oversteer. Engineers were pleased when we voiced our inability to kick the tail out, noting that most G37s won't see track duty, and that this type of chassis tuning helps keep overzealous drivers from getting into trouble on the street. The 4WAS intervenes in a subtle manner only when the chassis is provoked, so you'll know somebody's lying when they say they can feel how this technology helps them go faster.
Compared to the BMW 335i with an automatic, the G37 performed more smoothly and with more intuition. One could feel the BMW's extra torque, but the G's automatic worked better, as did its chassis.
Our favorite ride of the day was the G37 Sport 6MT. Its manual gearbox was immediately comfortable, and we never missed a shift. The extra gear helped increase speeds, and without the 4WAS, the chassis was more tossable … not such a cautious dance partner. With this car, Infiniti's estimate of mid 5-second 0-60 times seems entirely believable. For the record, the 6MT has an electronically limited top speed of 155 mph.
An interesting comparison to the Sport 6MT was a previous generation G35 coupe (manual) that Infiniti also brought to the track. By comparison, the older G felt less sophisticated and refined. But that car's less insulated steering provided far better feel. With fewer electronic controls, the older chassis felt freer to perform. If prospects for the new G37 want the feel of the old model, they can always turn to the Nissan Z.
Come hither
The new G37 is certainly as good looking as the original, but offers a more refined experience … kind of like dating a 30-something compared to a 20-something. One should find the G37 to be an excellent daily driver and a fine occasional track-day car. With these character traits and a nearly identical MSRP, the new G37 should easily seduce enough buyers to remain the top seller in the segment.
2008 Infiniti G37
Base Price: $34,500-$35,600 (estimated)
Engine: 3.7-liter V-6, 330 hp/270 lb-ft
Drivetrain: Five-speed automatic or six-speed manual, rear-wheel drive
Length x width x height: 183.1 x 71.7 x 54.7 in
Wheelbase: 112.2 in
Curb weight: 3668 lb (G37 Sport with six-speed manual)
Fuel economy (EPA city/hwy): 18/25 mpg (G35 estimate, G37 figures not yet available)
Safety equipment: Dual front, side, and curtain airbags; anti-lock brakes, tire pressure monitoring system, Vehicle Dynamic Control stability system, first aid kit
Major standard equipment: HID headlamps, leather seating surfaces, eight-way power driver seat, four-way power passenger seat, air conditioning with automatic temperature control; remote keyless entry; keyless start; rear-window defroster; steering wheel radio controls; power windows/locks/mirrors; AM/FM/CD/MP3/XM audio system; cruise control
Warranty: Three years/36,000 miles
A lesson in seduction.
by TCC Team (2007-06-25)
by Rex Roy
Diving into a right-left-right downhill combination at Barber Motorsports Park just outside of Birmingham, Alabama , lots of things snap into focus. First, the 14-inch front rotors on the 2008 G37 Sport really burn off speed in a hurry. Second, the entire package is well balanced and just plain easy to drive quickly and smoothly. Third, the 2007 BMW 335i coupe provided for comparison may have some advantages over the Infiniti, but you'll notice more of the BMW's deficiencies (rather than advantages) on the track.
The last thing: it's nice to take turns. As in, let someone else drive after a few hours. They'll appreciate it.
Not out of whole cloth
Infiniti introduced their G35 coupe back in 2002 as a 2003 model. Those with a keen mind for the ephemeral recall it was introduced with its four-door counterpart the G35 sedan, and that the market warmed to the coupe as a more mature alternative to its shorter-wheelbase two-seat cousin, the Nissan 350Z. Sales for Infiniti's 2+2 regularly outpaced seasoned competitors such as the Audi TT, the Mercedes C-Class coupes, and the G's arch nemesis, the BMW 3-Series coupe.
At the 2008 G37's introduction, it became clear that Infiniti wanted to improve the G, but not stray too far from their winning formula. There's a reason why the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," is an old saying.
In a disclosure that meant to give the press a peek inside the minds of development engineers, the Infiniti team referred to the G37 as "The Seductress." Everything they did was designed to make the new coupe sexier and more … ahem … capable of plying her trade. Thankfully, no collagen or silicone was used in the revamp.
A little more G-whiz
Infiniti offers three different flavors of G37; the base, the Journey, and the Sport. Following the pattern Infiniti employed when they introduced their new G35 sedan earlier this year, the team added more power and technology to their new coupe. The 2008 G rides on an improved version of the FM platform utilizing the same 112.2-inch wheelbase as the original.
The chassis itself it stiffer (by 36 percent), as are the front and rear sub-frames (45 percent) on to which the suspension components mount. Up front are double wishbones and a multi-link arrangement brings up the rear. Both ends get stabilizer bars. At the corners are some massive disc brakes. Base models get 13-inch platters all around, while 14-inch (front) and 13.8-inch units are used on the Sport 6MT variant. Covering the discs are aluminum 18-inch rims on the base, and 19-inch rims for the Sport 6MT. Directing all of this high technology is a rack-and-pinion steering gear with electric, as opposed to hydraulic, assist.
The old G35 coupe's V-6 was no boat anchor-it made 275 horsepower. Infiniti could have taken the easy way and just used the all-new engine they designed for the 2007 G35 sedan. But they didn't. They went bigger. The 2008 coupe's motor, while based on the 2007 sedan's, got an increase in stroke of 0.2 liters. Horsepower now reaches 330 at 7,000 rpm. This is 24 more than the 2007 G35 sedan, and a full 55 more than the outgoing 2007 G35 coupe. Redline for the 2008 coupe's V-6 VQ37VHR engine is 7,500 rpm. Torque peaks at 5,200 with a twisting force of 270 lb-ft.
Along with the requisite overhead cams and four valves per cylinder, the 3.7-liter V-6 features variable valve timing and variable valve lift. An interesting technical fact is that with variable valve lift, there is no need for a traditional throttle body to modulate the air coming into the engine. The varying throw of intake valves now handle all that. (That's along way from butterfly valves on carburetors, eh?)
Two transmissions back the 3.7-liter V-6; a five-speed automatic and a six-speed manual. While neither sets new benchmarks for gears, gadgetry or gimmicks, they both work well. Compared to earlier G-coupes, the six-speed's linkage has been improved for smoother, more accurate throws. The automatic received new electronic controls that help the box shift smarter, especially on the track where the downshift rev-matching helps keep the chassis balanced and the engine in the power band.
While the 2008 G37's chassis already meets high standards for spec-sheet gurus, Infiniti added the option of 4-Wheel Active Steer (4WAS). Intended to add stability during quick maneuvers at highway speeds, the 4WAS turns the rear wheels in-phase (the same direction) as the fronts up to 1 degree. For most drivers, the addition of 4WAS will be something to brag about while bench racing because the effect is something most people won't ever genuinely notice.
Putting the lateral G in the G37
We concentrated our time in the well-equipped Journey with an automatic and 4WAS, and a Sport 6MT non-4WAS. We accumulated seat time in both models over public roads and on the road course at Barber Motorsports Park . While Infiniti offers much infotainment for those so inclined, we were more interested in the smooth exhaust note and the suppleness that the suspension exhibited over varying road surfaces. Over the road both cars are quiet and quick.
Then things heated up on the track. Getting familiar with the technically-drawn track required a good dozen laps, then we could actually pay attention to the nuances of the new G. First, the full-equipped Journey was smooth…like, Sade on the rocks smooth. While the car acquitted itself well with the transmission in Drive, using the Sport mode improved the automatic's performance-downshifting quickly when braking, holding gear through corners, and upshifting higher in the rev range when exiting. The system also provides paddle shifters that allowed drivers to easily click-shift quickly and with a welcome absence of roughness.
Handling mimics the auto gearbox, quick and smooth. Transitions through corners are well managed and there's no bobbing and weaving as you stop accelerating and begin braking or vise versa. The chassis feels quite neutral, and especially with the 4WAS, even really provocative driving could not cause oversteer. Engineers were pleased when we voiced our inability to kick the tail out, noting that most G37s won't see track duty, and that this type of chassis tuning helps keep overzealous drivers from getting into trouble on the street. The 4WAS intervenes in a subtle manner only when the chassis is provoked, so you'll know somebody's lying when they say they can feel how this technology helps them go faster.
Compared to the BMW 335i with an automatic, the G37 performed more smoothly and with more intuition. One could feel the BMW's extra torque, but the G's automatic worked better, as did its chassis.
Our favorite ride of the day was the G37 Sport 6MT. Its manual gearbox was immediately comfortable, and we never missed a shift. The extra gear helped increase speeds, and without the 4WAS, the chassis was more tossable … not such a cautious dance partner. With this car, Infiniti's estimate of mid 5-second 0-60 times seems entirely believable. For the record, the 6MT has an electronically limited top speed of 155 mph.
An interesting comparison to the Sport 6MT was a previous generation G35 coupe (manual) that Infiniti also brought to the track. By comparison, the older G felt less sophisticated and refined. But that car's less insulated steering provided far better feel. With fewer electronic controls, the older chassis felt freer to perform. If prospects for the new G37 want the feel of the old model, they can always turn to the Nissan Z.
Come hither
The new G37 is certainly as good looking as the original, but offers a more refined experience … kind of like dating a 30-something compared to a 20-something. One should find the G37 to be an excellent daily driver and a fine occasional track-day car. With these character traits and a nearly identical MSRP, the new G37 should easily seduce enough buyers to remain the top seller in the segment.
2008 Infiniti G37
Base Price: $34,500-$35,600 (estimated)
Engine: 3.7-liter V-6, 330 hp/270 lb-ft
Drivetrain: Five-speed automatic or six-speed manual, rear-wheel drive
Length x width x height: 183.1 x 71.7 x 54.7 in
Wheelbase: 112.2 in
Curb weight: 3668 lb (G37 Sport with six-speed manual)
Fuel economy (EPA city/hwy): 18/25 mpg (G35 estimate, G37 figures not yet available)
Safety equipment: Dual front, side, and curtain airbags; anti-lock brakes, tire pressure monitoring system, Vehicle Dynamic Control stability system, first aid kit
Major standard equipment: HID headlamps, leather seating surfaces, eight-way power driver seat, four-way power passenger seat, air conditioning with automatic temperature control; remote keyless entry; keyless start; rear-window defroster; steering wheel radio controls; power windows/locks/mirrors; AM/FM/CD/MP3/XM audio system; cruise control
Warranty: Three years/36,000 miles
06-25-07, 03:17 PM
#26
Yesterday I went to the BMW ultimate drive event, and when I test drove the 335, the POS overheated. This is laughable, because BMW is praised for making performance engines, but not a single of their performance engines is anywhere remotely reliable. The old M3 has major engine problems and oil consuming, M5 has compression issues, and the new 335 overheats. I can't wait for these POSes to start blowing headgaskets left and right.
That being said, BMW should've just bought whatever 2JZGTE's that Toyota has in the left over bin, and put them into the 335. It a far superior engine despite being 15 years old. BMW should just stick to making 180hp 325's and selling them to badge buyers.
That being said, BMW should've just bought whatever 2JZGTE's that Toyota has in the left over bin, and put them into the 335. It a far superior engine despite being 15 years old. BMW should just stick to making 180hp 325's and selling them to badge buyers.
Last edited by Och; 06-25-07 at 03:56 PM.
06-25-07, 03:43 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
On the 335i's overheating issue:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=625687
"Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him."
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=625687
"Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him."
