August Road & Track G37 vs. 335 (+ Edmunds Comparo)
#47
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Whether or not the 335i is the best vehicle in its class is not what I'm arguing.
I agree, and no sales are not struggling but apparently the extra fifteen thousand dollar premium isn't worth it to most people including most 3series owners (328i)
#48
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What costs an extra 15 grand? The 335i? It starts right under 40, so it's 15 grand over what? A moderately equipped Ford Taurus?
#49
and by the numbers how many more units will the G37 sell compared to the 335i?
How many more Z's sell compared to the 335i?
How many more Corvettes sell compared to the 335i?
How many 328i's outsell the 335i
Doesn't the 997 outsell the 335i.
apparently the marketplace doesn't agree
How many more Z's sell compared to the 335i?
How many more Corvettes sell compared to the 335i?
How many 328i's outsell the 335i
Doesn't the 997 outsell the 335i.
apparently the marketplace doesn't agree
The 335i convertible has only been out for about three months. So why not compare the sales of the 335i coupe + convertible during this three month period....(April- June)
The 335i outsold the Z (and um, not sure where the other two people sit in this car - so not so sure about your comparisons)
The 335i outsold the 997 (and let's just take the 911, coupe, convert, and for good measure throw in the S variants)
Now if it makes you feel better, the Corvette did outsell the 335i coupe and convertible, but I ask you once again, How are you going to get four people into a Vette?????
#50
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Or you don't know how to add....
The 335i convertible has only been out for about three months. So why not compare the sales of the 335i coupe + convertible during this three month period....(April- June)
The 335i outsold the Z (and um, not sure where the other two people sit in this car - so not so sure about your comparisons)
The 335i outsold the 997 (and let's just take the 911, coupe, convert, and for good measure throw in the S variants)
Now if it makes you feel better, the Corvette did outsell the 335i coupe and convertible, but I ask you once again, How are you going to get four people into a Vette?????
The 335i convertible has only been out for about three months. So why not compare the sales of the 335i coupe + convertible during this three month period....(April- June)
The 335i outsold the Z (and um, not sure where the other two people sit in this car - so not so sure about your comparisons)
The 335i outsold the 997 (and let's just take the 911, coupe, convert, and for good measure throw in the S variants)
Now if it makes you feel better, the Corvette did outsell the 335i coupe and convertible, but I ask you once again, How are you going to get four people into a Vette?????
Here is a good line I've read recently on a car forum:
We are all car enthusiasts, we all share the same passion. We should just be able to appreciate our common interests and differences in taste.
#51
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#52
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#53
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I'm one of the first to say, Lexus builds very nice cars but they are totally different than BMW. Sure, they may be a bit boring to people who like to drive cars more geared into performance. But who cares? I think it's Lexus' intent to isolate the driver/passengers from the road. It's a luxury feel. Some people don't want to be connected to the road. That's fine.
I don't see how Lexus suddenly became the topic of discussion (read thread title). There's no need to be bitter at BMWs because they make great cars also.
Let's get back to the topic at hand before the thread gets locked. I think it's safe to say, we have different opinions on different cars. I like BMWs, I like Lexus, and I like Infiniti. I just like cars.
Again...
We are all car enthusiasts, we all share the same passion. We should just be able to appreciate our common interests and differences in taste.
What's taking so long for this car to come out? :P
#54
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Bang for your buck has never been BMW's strong suit and I'm afraid it never will be. BMW, IMHO caters to a relatively young, somewhat successful crowd that wants the car as a measure of success and obviously caters to your more performance oriented driver. Japanese companies are known more for bang for your buck and until recently, more for "econoboxes" such as your typical Honda or Toyota. It is quite refreshing to see Lexus move to towards the more expensive, upper-echelon luxury cruisers, such as the LS600h L, LF-A, and IS-F. I wish Honda had the same mentality (and budget) to evolutionize the NSX/S2000. Honda now and then will build such absolutely fabulous cars, then let them become dated.
Last edited by OC 335d; 07-04-07 at 02:16 PM.
#55
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but anyways.
I'm not bitter, maybe annoyed.
Take for instance
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...=Lightning+Lap
a C6 Z06 outruns everything and it isn't even mentioned in the thread.
BMW this, BMW that, BMW is worth the extra $15k (yet the G35 is CR's favorite entry level luxury sedan)
BMW is >* arguments seem to go on endlessly, mainly thanks to BMW owners and C&D. Sometimes I forget where I am.
Why even own a sports car anymore? The automotive mags (not the marketplace) have spoken and BMW's are the ultimate driving machines. Nothing else matters
#56
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you can't patent a phrase. you can trademark one like, "The Ultimate Driving Machine."
but anyways.
I'm not bitter, maybe annoyed.
Take for instance
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...=Lightning+Lap
a C6 Z06 outruns everything and it isn't even mentioned in the thread.
BMW this, BMW that, BMW is worth the extra $15k (yet the G35 is CR's favorite entry level luxury sedan)
BMW is >* arguments seem to go on endlessly, mainly thanks to BMW owners and C&D. Sometimes I forget where I am.
Why even own a sports car anymore? The automotive mags (not the marketplace) have spoken and BMW's are the ultimate driving machines. Nothing else matters
but anyways.
I'm not bitter, maybe annoyed.
Take for instance
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...=Lightning+Lap
a C6 Z06 outruns everything and it isn't even mentioned in the thread.
BMW this, BMW that, BMW is worth the extra $15k (yet the G35 is CR's favorite entry level luxury sedan)
BMW is >* arguments seem to go on endlessly, mainly thanks to BMW owners and C&D. Sometimes I forget where I am.
Why even own a sports car anymore? The automotive mags (not the marketplace) have spoken and BMW's are the ultimate driving machines. Nothing else matters
And then you have their active steering, electronic throttles and transmissions, that all take away from the driving experience, yet you have people willing to argue to death how telepathic BMW's are.
And when you consider that BMW interiors are the ugliest, least luxurious in class, and their control systems are awkward, it just boggles my mind that people even buy these things. I mean, you have the 7 series, which has the most ridiculous implementation of I-drive and the most awkwardly placed controls, and then you have a 5 series with the handbrake in the center console, leaving the driver without a handrest, and to have an electronic gear shifter next to the handbrake is laughable. Yeah, yeah, I know you can buy one with a manual transmission, but nobody does anyway. I could go on and on about lack of ergonomics or common sense in BMW's interior designs but I really don't want to. All I can say is I wish they would take a lesson from Lexus and Acura when it came to interiors and controls. Out of all of their vehicles, the 3 series is the only one with decent interior and comprehendible controls, but unfortunately it’s ugly and cheaply built, somewhere on par with last gen G35. And lets not forget the controversial styling of their "Bangled" line-up.
Of course, no car is perfect, not even Lexus, and every car has its own share of plusses, minuses, and compromises. But as far as BMW’s are concerned, I personally feel that their minuses and compromises simply overshadow whatever plusses they might have, and the only thing selling them is the badge and abundance of people that need the badge to compensate for their own shortcomings, combined of course with BMW’s subsidized lease rates.
#57
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See I agree with that 100%. It is annoying how BMW is praised all over, by magazines, and their owners, but hardly anybody is willing to talk about BMW's faults and shortcomings. I for instance had 3 Lexii, 1 Honda, and I've spoken about my cars plusses and minuses, however I'm yet to see a single 323 owner admit that their car is rubbish. Heck, you have BMW calling themselves a performance brand, yet they do not make a single REAL sports car, never have, never will, and most of their line-up is rather average, if not pathetic.
Pretty pathetic when a brand new performance car from a "performance" brand can't hold a candle to anti-sporty Toyota's 15 year old Supra.
And then you have their active steering, electronic throttles and transmissions, that all take away from the driving experience, yet you have people willing to argue to death how telepathic BMW's are.
then you have a 5 series with the handbrake in the center console, leaving the driver without a handrest, and to have an electronic gear shifter next to the handbrake is laughable. Yeah, yeah, I know you can buy one with a manual transmission, but nobody does anyway.
Of course, no car is perfect, not even Lexus, and every car has its own share of plusses, minuses, and compromises. But as far as BMW’s are concerned, I personally feel that their minuses and compromises simply overshadow whatever plusses they might have, and the only thing selling them is the badge and abundance of people that need the badge to compensate for their own shortcomings, combined of course with BMW’s subsidized lease rates.
Then again, I should know better than to argue with someone about performance cars, since you have so much knowledge on the subject, coming from 1 Honda, 1 Lexus GS, and 1 Lexus LS. Pure performance cars you have there, you are obviously well-versed on driving performance cars. I bet you haven't even been on the track. BMW holds several performance classes, offers performance center delivery, and you will see many BMWs on the track. You don't see the same with Toyota, since they generally aren't geared towards performance. You will be hard pressed to find many Lexus at the track as well. I dislike the ignorant die hard BMW fan boys as much as anyone, but being an anti-BMW zealot isn't much better.
Last edited by OC 335d; 07-04-07 at 05:26 PM.
#58
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Maybe because the C6 Z06 isn't a Sporty Coupe? Why are you comparing Apples and Oranges again? I guess you are getting closer than your F40 comparisons. Hey, when the IS-F comes around, I'll start comparing it to a Porsche GT3.
#59
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
I've no doubts that the new M3 will easily outperform a Supra, but what about reliability? If its anything like the current M3, no thanks.
Then again, I should know better than to argue with someone about performance cars, since you have so much knowledge on the subject, coming from 1 Honda, 1 Lexus GS, and 1 Lexus LS. Pure performance cars you have there, you are obviously well-versed on driving performance cars. I bet you haven't even been on the track. BMW holds several performance classes, offers performance center delivery, and you will see many BMWs on the track. You don't see the same with Toyota, since they generally aren't geared towards performance. You will be hard pressed to find many Lexus at the track as well. I dislike the ignorant die hard BMW fan boys as much as anyone, but being an anti-BMW zealot isn't much better.
As far as myself, I've never claimed to be Michael Schumacher, and while I do like an agressive drive here and there, I also value comfort, build quality, styling, utility, etc, etc, and BMW's simply do not appeal to me in any of these aspects. Sure, if I was rich, I'd have myself LS600 for a luxury car, S2000 for rotations, and Viper SRT10 or very modified Supra to haul some ***. Unfortunately, I'm not rich, so I do have to make more sensible choices.
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