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August Road & Track G37 vs. 335 (+ Edmunds Comparo)

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Old 06-30-07, 11:49 AM
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Default August Road & Track G37 vs. 335 (+ Edmunds Comparo)





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Old 06-30-07, 12:08 PM
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Another review, the G37 does weigh nearly 3800lbs!! That is ridiculous and its hurting 0-60 times, this car is not faster than the competition and not much if any faster than the 1st gen G35c.... And a $42k estimated price (like Edmunds). Its still a good car but its got me scratching my head here...

GIve me the 335. I am sure tuners will s/c and turbo the new VQ, should be fun!!

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=290135

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Old 06-30-07, 01:37 PM
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I agree. The weight of the G37 is a little bit ridiculous, and despite the added ppower of the 3.7L V6, the performance of the G37 cannot match the 335i, and it can't even match an IS350 in straight-line speed. I wonder how the upcoming IS Coupe will compare.
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Old 06-30-07, 02:47 PM
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Nice Altima Coupe...er...I mean G37. Car looks too much like a few models already out. The previous generation of the G is the sexier one.

I actually like the new 3 series coupe. I'd take it over the G37.
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Old 06-30-07, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Another review, the G37 does weigh nearly 3800lbs!! That is ridiculous and its hurting 0-60 times, this car is not faster than the competition and not much if any faster than the 1st gen G35c.... And a $42k estimated price (like Edmunds). Its still a good car but its got me scratching my head here...

GIve me the 335. I am sure tuners will s/c and turbo the new VQ, should be fun!!

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=290135

Previous 335 vs G37 thread

Yeah. when you add a passenger or full gas tank. The G37 weights 3616, 3668, or 3686 depending on the model.

But adding a driver would obviously bump this to 3800's. But stating it weighs 3800 is a bit misleading.

Either way, it still weighs too much


Originally Posted by Dash2110
Nice Altima Coupe...er...I mean G37. Car looks too much like a few models already out. The previous generation of the G is the sexier one.

I actually like the new 3 series coupe. I'd take it over the G37.
This is getting old

Regarding the 335i vs G37, it would be a very tough choice if I were in the situation. Those turbo's from the 335i are very appealing.

.
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Old 06-30-07, 09:13 PM
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skater, I was reading the G35 forum and a guy posted a poll and his first post was he was pretty much ready to buy the car unseen and then he saw it and after seeing the performance numbers, he is now going to shop around.

I think we all were expecting low to sub 4 second and low 13 1/4 mile times, not performance on par with the old car. When you add the new style which is nice but does not blow people away like the first one, well, I'm a little lost.

The interior is clearly a big step above the 1st gen.
 
Old 06-30-07, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
skater, I was reading the G35 forum and a guy posted a poll and his first post was he was pretty much ready to buy the car unseen and then he saw it and after seeing the performance numbers, he is now going to shop around.

I think we all were expecting low to sub 4 second and low 13 1/4 mile times, not performance on par with the old car. When you add the new style which is nice but does not blow people away like the first one, well, I'm a little lost.

The interior is clearly a big step above the 1st gen.
you mean low-sub 5 sec 0-60?

maybe, but the e46 m3 has a tough time pulling that off- and it has what, 250 less lbs?

i think the new style is ok, if they didnt show the concept people would have liked it more. i have no idea what happened to the concept but regarding this gen vs the last, most g35 owners are not car enthusiasts... so many of them requested something more refined... leading to this car- which is the g37s biggest problem imo. ironically, sales were good the first time around, we'll see what happens with the new car.
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Old 07-01-07, 07:58 AM
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the G35 6MT weighs 3555lbs w/o sunroof.
the G35c 6MT weighs 3524 w/o sunroof
the IS350 weighs 3527 w/sunroof

the 335i 6MT coupe weighs 3571lbs unladen, which I believe is BMW's way of saying we don' want to add an additional 200lbs in fluids.
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Old 07-01-07, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by skater

This is getting old
I'm not trying to crack a joke or make a punchline out of it. I think it's something which is becoming more and more apparent as of late, with cars starting to borrow styles just a little too much from one another. It's just my opinion of course, but I think the G37 looks too much like the the Altima Coupe to me. I've heard many others who find other models to compare it to as well. I wasn't even impressed by the newer G35s. I think they ruined the front end by making it look too much like their news Ms.

It's one of the reasons why I was never a huge fan of the 2nd Gen IS. When it first came out I felt like they took the "ISness" out of the model, and it reminded me too much of an ES in size and stature. It's still a nice car, but nothing I was blown away by (however I love the interior).

I've never been crazy about the 3 series either, but with the coupe I think they've done enough to catch my attention. Of course, I'm talking purely aesthetic here, but compared to a G37 which just looks a little too rehashed, and I find myself leaning towards the BMW side when having to choose between these two.
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Old 07-01-07, 08:18 AM
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thanks to google

Unladen != curb weight

Unladen weight includes 5 gallons of fuel, the other 13.5 gallons required for a curb weight are missing. In other words BMW does not want an accurate comparison made, so add about 80lbs to the 335i for its curb weight.

Curb weight for the 335i ~3651lbs
but the 335i does not include leather which adds weight. Add naturally for the comparion BMW includes a car w/o Navigation and probably w/o leather.

the G35 has a 20gallon fuel capacity compared to the IS350's 17.1 gallon fuel tank.

As usual worthless auto journalists prove too useless to do any research on their own.
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Old 07-01-07, 08:43 AM
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Let's not forget the G37 is taller, longer and wider than the 335i. That alone can account for the weight difference.

I also just got a smile from realizing that I'd never have predicted we'd be comparing a Japanese large displacement NA V6 with a twin turbo small displacement I6.
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Old 07-01-07, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
thanks to google

Unladen != curb weight

Unladen weight includes 5 gallons of fuel, the other 13.5 gallons required for a curb weight are missing. In other words BMW does not want an accurate comparison made, so add about 80lbs to the 335i for its curb weight.

Curb weight for the 335i ~3651lbs
but the 335i does not include leather which adds weight. Add naturally for the comparion BMW includes a car w/o Navigation and probably w/o leather.

the G35 has a 20gallon fuel capacity compared to the IS350's 17.1 gallon fuel tank.

As usual worthless auto journalists prove too useless to do any research on their own.
BMW reports their weight as unladen - which is higher than curb weight.

edit: acutally curb weight does not have to include fuel but might. However since fuel tanks vary in size, if you ask me, the only "clean" way to report acurate weights is unladen.....

edit2:and if you do a search on that, you will see that this has been discussed way too much on this board.

Last edited by doug_999; 07-01-07 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 07-02-07, 07:28 AM
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1st Place: BMW 335i

2nd Place: Infiniti G37








After driving the 2007 BMW 335i and 2008 Infiniti G37, we wonder if the people who built them thought about anything besides going fast.

Between the twin turbochargers nesting on the 335i's inline six-cylinder and the large-displacement V6 that gives the G37 its name, we're waist-deep in a level of engine might that recalls an E46 BMW M3 — and we've scarcely passed the $40,000 price barrier.

The 2007 BMW 335i and 2008 Infiniti G37 coupes make you see the idea of a four-passenger, rear-drive luxury coupe in a new way. It still needs to be attractive, elegant and graceful. Handling still ought to be sharp, balanced and involving. But raw speed has become an important measure of worth. A snarky exhaust is now a sign of virtue.

The Gap Narrows
As you'd guess from the Sport suffix, a sport package is standard on this flavor of G. In addition to the expected firmer suspension settings and sport seats, it supplies a limited-slip differential, 19-inch wheels with Bridgestone Potenza RE050A tires, and larger-diameter brake discs at all four corners. With a six-speed manual gearbox, the price of the G37 Sport starts out just under $36,000, Infiniti tells us. (Infiniti has yet to release official pricing for the 2008 G37.)

Our test car had nearly the full load of options, however. Big-ticket items included a hard-drive-based navigation system, Infiniti's new Four-Wheel Active Steer (4WAS) and the Premium Package, which provides high-end Bose sound, a sunroof, Bluetooth and all sorts of cabin conveniences. With an additional $550 for a spoiler, we estimate the total bill at $42,413.

From there it's only a $3,800 jump to our 2007 BMW 335i test car, also a six-speed manual. It was a conventionally equipped 3 Series coupe, meaning it had both the Sport and Premium Packages but no navigation system (and therefore no iDrive).

The BMW's Sport upgrades consist of 18-inch wheels, a run-flat set of Bridgestone Potenza RE050As and generously bolstered seats. The Premium group adds leather, Bluetooth, BMW Assist telematics and various conveniences. Active steering is available, but our test car didn't have it. Heated seats ($500) and Sparkling Graphite paint ($475) were additional line items, yielding an MSRP of $46,200.

Infiniti G37: Going for Exotic Character
Though the G37 seems more like a 3 Series than ever when you look at its price and equipment, it feels pretty exotic when you settle into the driver seat.

The seat is mounted as low as the beltline is high, and you're gently coaxed into adopting a reclined driving position, as if you were driving a Formula 1 car. The control layout is ergonomically superb. The seat is a tad squishy, but it envelops your body and even offers a seat-bottom cushion that you can extend to support your legs — you know, like in a BMW.

As you look out through the dramatically sloped windshield, you'd swear you were looking into a Ferrari's cleavage, as the curves of the G's front quarter-panel curves rise softly to frame the oncoming blacktop.

Powerful but Conflicted
Setting out, the Infiniti G37 is at once relaxed and frenetic. Rated for 330 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 270 pound-feet of torque at 5,200 rpm, the new 3.7-liter V6 delivers useful wallop off the line, but like the 3.5 before it, this engine prefers to do business in the midrange of its power band.

Shifting the six-speed box is not as pleasurable as it should be, either. The weighty clutch engages without subtlety, as if to say, "Get it over with, tenderfoot." But the shift action isn't as decisive. The shift lever is a nice piece in your hand (especially since it doesn't resonate with engine vibration, as it did in the G35 sedan), but it navigates slowly if precisely through the gates, as if it needs to carefully digest all that engine power.

At the test track, this drivetrain delivers the G37 to the quarter-mile mark in 13.8 seconds at 102 mph, while a run to 60 mph takes 5.4 seconds.

Unrealized Potential
Around town, the Infiniti coupe's stiff chassis reminds you that every second you waste running errands in suburbia could be better spent on a remote back road. Surprisingly, this tautly calibrated chassis proved compliant over most pavement surfaces.

Once on the back roads, the Infiniti G37 isn't as hard-core as its tightly wound chassis would have you believe. It carries a flat attitude through corners, but it's never truly eager to change direction. The brake pedal feels vague and hard to modulate. Most of all, the steering doesn't weight up properly, and the feedback only comes through at a trickle.

In light of our more positive experience with an automatic 2008 G37 coupe, we blame the 4WAS system that is a mandatory addition to the equipment list of the G37 Sport with a six-speed manual transmission. The 4WAS attempts to vary the steering ratio between 12:1 and 20:1, and swivels the rear wheels up to 1 degree in line with the fronts. All this contributes to the G37 coupe's high-speed stability but seems to reduce the car's appetite for corners.

In the more controlled environment of our instrumented testing facility, 4WAS doesn't seem to hamper the G37, and the car maintains 71.3 mph through the slalom. The supersize brakes are not quite up to their promise, as the 3,715-pound G37 stops in 115 feet from 60 mph on its first run, but fades to 122 feet by the fifth run.

3 Series Coupe: Return to the Conventional
The 335i coupe feels like a sedan once you get behind the wheel. The seating position is higher, the cowl is lower and visibility is excellent in all directions.

The BMW has firmer seat cushions than the Infiniti, too. There's the manually adjustable bottom cushion that you expect in a BMW, plus the seatback's side bolsters can be adjusted to give you a tighter squeeze as well. And there's plenty of headroom, something that can't be said of the sunroof-equipped G37 coupe.

You won't get any thrilling views of the 335i's sheet metal through the windshield, however. This car is too down-to-business to allow such indiscretions.

Indiscreet Grunt
Indecency surfaces elsewhere. The amount of torque juicing the BMW's wide 255/35R18 rear tires might be deemed such. So might the manly exhaust roar.

But you'd forgive this twin-turbo, direct-injected 3.0-liter six almost anything and not just because of its impressive ratings of 300 hp at 5,800 rpm and 300 lb-ft of torque at an incredibly modest 1,400 rpm. Rather, it's that numerical potency combined with the engine's extreme tractability. This turbo inline-6 is smoother than the G37's V6. And as free-revving as the Nissan VQ V6 is, this twin-turbo six likes to rev even more.

As with all Bimmer gearboxes, this one feels slightly glutinous as you move the lever through the gates. Compared to the G's shift action, though, the BMW has a lighter-effort feel and it snaps positively into gear. The 335i's clutch engagement is also smoother and more predictable than that of the G37.

These impressions were borne out at the test track, where the 335i was not only four-tenths of a second quicker to the quarter-mile mark with a 13.4-second run but also moving at a significantly faster clip of 104.3 mph. Meanwhile, 60 mph came up in just 4.8 seconds.

All the Necessary Details
Our test-driving loops on back roads also revealed the 2007 BMW 335i to be faster in real-world driving, even though its softer suspension tune compromised our slalom testing, where the BMW recorded 69.5 mph. Feedback is what makes the difference. Both coupes talk to their drivers, but the 335i speaks in great detail.

We're so locked into the car's progress down the road through the compliant chassis and textured steering, we push on without reservation. Although the BMW's steering ratio of 16.0:1 suggests otherwise, the 3 Series reacts to its steering more quickly than the G37.

Once you get deep into the BMW's middle pedal, it's easy to get the full measure of the brakes. At the track, our 3,542-pound 335i test car came to a halt in 109 feet and never deviated more than a foot over our series of stops.

The BMW held only a surprisingly slim advantage in ride comfort over the Infiniti, perhaps because of the 335i's run-flat tires.

The Dyno Beckons
Although our 3,715-pound Infiniti G37 test car weighed in almost 200 pounds heavier than our 3,542-pound BMW 335i coupe, we puzzled over the wide difference in their respective acceleration performance and the G's relative lack of high-rpm vigor. The Infiniti is supposed to have a 30-hp advantage, but it wasn't adding up.

This led us back to the chassis dynamometer at MD Automotive in Westminster, California, the same facility we used to test an overachieving, automatic-equipped 335i.

As the dyno reveals, our 335i test car produces 280 hp 5,800 rpm as measured at the rear wheels, while the G37 comes up with 281 hp at 7,200 rpm. As close as these numbers look, the 335i holds a huge advantage over the G in power under the curve from idle to 6,350 rpm. And if you look at torque, the difference is even uglier: 279 lb-ft at 3,370 rpm for the BMW versus 229 at 4,500 rpm for the Infiniti.

The thing to keep in mind is that the G37's dyno numbers are actually right on target. They're 15 percent lower than the published specifications (which don't take drivetrain losses into account) and that's what you can expect from most production cars. The 335i's numbers were only 7 percent down from the specs, which suggest to us that BMW has slightly underrated it.

The Rest of the Time
So the BMW 335i is the better drive, but would you want to live with it? It depends on your priorities. If the latest technology is a must-have for you, the Infiniti G37 is the better choice. In addition to giving you more content per dollar, the G has a more ergonomically sound layout for the controls, as reflected in its excellent navigation system that deftly blends touchscreen and directional-button functionality.

If quality and interior passenger volume matter to you, the BMW is the one you want. True, you pay extra to get leather in the Bimmer, but the standard hides in the G feel like they belong in a $30,000 car, not a $40,000 one.

We were also surprised to find the BMW has 88.5 cubic feet of passenger volume, while the G37 is rated at 85.0 cubic feet (82.7 when a sunroof is present).

Deceptively Close
Whether you consider this battle a pedigreed recasting of the Camaro-Mustang rivalry or a superficial spat to be had between handsomely paid professionals, one thing's certain: Neither coupe would have gotten this much engine if the other didn't exist.

Very likely, they wouldn't stop or handle as well, either. Nor would they each offer an active steering system as an option. At heart, the 2007 BMW 335i and 2008 Infiniti G37 are chasing the same driver.

And by most standards, the Infiniti G37 is an impressive car and a lot of fun. But it isn't as quick as the BMW 335i, nor does it engage its driver with equal commitment.

Due to its higher price and shorter features list, the 3 Series won this test by only 2.3 points. But contained within those points are all the details that make it a more intimate and involving driving partner.

"Nearly every aspect of our drive feels more natural in the 335i," one of our editors recorded in the notebook for this comparison. "I'm not sure what the price difference is, but the BMW feels $15,000 better."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
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Old 07-02-07, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Another review, the G37 does weigh nearly 3800lbs!! That is ridiculous and its hurting 0-60 times,
I agree. The weight of cars these days is balooning to the point where carmakers have to keep dumping more and more fuel into the cylinders just so the car meets or beats the previous model's 0-60 times. And because they also have to meet or beat the hwy MPG estimates, they keep putting taller final gears into the transmission, and and build more fuel-saving mappings into the engine and tranmission programme. Which makes it harder and harder to fully exploit the drivetrain's true potential. Even more importantly to me, is the negative impact all that weight has on handling.
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Old 07-02-07, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by doug_999
BMW reports their weight as unladen - which is higher than curb weight.
that's impossible, curb weight is the maximum possible weight w/o including the driver.

Originally Posted by doug_999
edit: acutally curb weight does not have to include fuel but might. However since fuel tanks vary in size, if you ask me, the only "clean" way to report acurate weights is unladen.....
the legal definition of curb weight is w/a full tank of gas. Problem is that no other automaker lists unladen weights. And BMW managed fool incompetent auto journalists yet again.

Originally Posted by doug_999
edit2:and if you do a search on that, you will see that this has been discussed way too much on this board.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, auto journalists need to do proper research. Yet none of them bother.

jackasses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSpE_Sl5XHE
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