e92 M3 Reviews from CAR/Autocar/Edumnds/Top Gear
07-09-07, 06:58 PM
#31
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07-10-07, 04:25 AM
#32
I agree. I remember when Japan/Honda came out with the NSX back in the day, all the purist exotic/sports car owners and enthusiasts complained it was not raw enough, too refined and so on. Fast foward to today and bam, we now have the Ferrari F430.
07-10-07, 06:58 AM
#33
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Those reviews are certainly not that enthusiastic, but BMW has so many cards to play. They can most likely will bring out a 'hotter' version (CSL) of the M3. With all the electronic control they can basically reprogram the car for dramatically different responses. And maybe the reviewers had pre-production units?
07-10-07, 07:24 AM
#34
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I think though we need "purists" or cars will continue to just get more power, get more complex and be more overweight. Purists have a dedicated vision for the driving experience as REAL as it can get.
Purists bring us the Lotuse Elise/Exige for instance. All of 180hp but a bat outta ......
There is just more driver involvement in lighter cars, with no assist, less or no electronics. Purists though are not a large buying bunch, so they have less and less options to chose from.
I think a purist is the type to create the M3 CSL, (which will surely come) and take the M3 to maybe, back to its hardcore roots.
Purists bring us the Lotuse Elise/Exige for instance. All of 180hp but a bat outta ......
There is just more driver involvement in lighter cars, with no assist, less or no electronics. Purists though are not a large buying bunch, so they have less and less options to chose from.
I think a purist is the type to create the M3 CSL, (which will surely come) and take the M3 to maybe, back to its hardcore roots.
07-10-07, 01:18 PM
#36
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I think though we need "purists" or cars will continue to just get more power, get more complex and be more overweight. Purists have a dedicated vision for the driving experience as REAL as it can get.
Purists bring us the Lotuse Elise/Exige for instance. All of 180hp but a bat outta ......
Purists bring us the Lotuse Elise/Exige for instance. All of 180hp but a bat outta ......
Can anyone seriously argue that the latest 911 is the best one ever built? It's faster, handles better, more comfortable, safer, and more reliable. That's amazing.
There is just more driver involvement in lighter cars, with no assist, less or no electronics.
For cars to be more capable in more circumstances they will inevitably get more complex. We can't even really imagine what cars 10 years from now will be like but I know this - the biggest development cost will be SOFTWARE integrating and analyzing and acting on data from hundreds of sensors, receivers and transmitters.
'Simpler' cars with less smarts will just be a function of cost. My MX-5 was cheap compared to other sports cars. I recognize it has compromises though and does not feature many complex things on other, more expensive vehicles.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that in order to justify high prices cars are going to continue to get more complicated. If it doesn't result in more weight and therefore need more power to propel it as fast or faster than prior models, then it will need more and more exotic manufacturing methods and materials like composites, even stuff like kevlar. And guess what, that makes costs skyrocket.
Purists though are not a large buying bunch, so they have less and less options to chose from.
07-10-07, 01:59 PM
#37
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Purists =/= minimalists.
Purists only mean people who want the purest essence of something. If complicated systems contributes to that essence, it's all the better. For BMW purists that essence is the magic driving feel. If the E92 M3 doesn't deliver that, it isn't a purist BMW car. It has nothing to do with how complicated the systems in the car are.
Purists only mean people who want the purest essence of something. If complicated systems contributes to that essence, it's all the better. For BMW purists that essence is the magic driving feel. If the E92 M3 doesn't deliver that, it isn't a purist BMW car. It has nothing to do with how complicated the systems in the car are.
07-12-07, 07:13 PM
#38
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Purists =/= minimalists.
Purists only mean people who want the purest essence of something. If complicated systems contributes to that essence, it's all the better. For BMW purists that essence is the magic driving feel. If the E92 M3 doesn't deliver that, it isn't a purist BMW car. It has nothing to do with how complicated the systems in the car are.
Purists only mean people who want the purest essence of something. If complicated systems contributes to that essence, it's all the better. For BMW purists that essence is the magic driving feel. If the E92 M3 doesn't deliver that, it isn't a purist BMW car. It has nothing to do with how complicated the systems in the car are.
I think most purists at least 'think' they are minimalists, believing that 'essence' you speak of only comes without 'electronic nannies' and no 'steenkin' auto tranny.
You see this a lot in magazine car reviews by old geezers. But I think that's a naive, nostalgic view though, because without an active suspension for example, even with BMW's suspension 'magic' the E46 M3 was considered 'rock hard'. But active suspensions really allow a car to be MUCH more versatile, providing more comfort when not in a demanding situation AND more capable in demanding situations than 'dumb' suspensions.
And let's face it, we all have to drive on real roads, not some super smooth track, so that's a GIGANTIC compromise right there.
Variable ratio or assist power steering may not be 'purist' but we all have to park in the supermarket parking lot.
The 'purity' of a 1974 Porshce 911 makes it hard to drive, uncomfortable, and extremely unforgiving nearing the limit.
No thanks, I'll take less purity/minimalism and more technology.
07-12-07, 07:25 PM
#39
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wow the m3 already lost a comparo? the bmw m's are on a nice streak.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/attachm...1&d=1184238479
http://www.m3post.com/forums/attachm...1&d=1184238479
07-12-07, 07:28 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
I've still been mulling over this subtle distinction.
I think most purists at least 'think' they are minimalists, believing that 'essence' you speak of only comes without 'electronic nannies' and no 'steenkin' auto tranny. You see this a lot in magazine car reviews by old geezers.
But I think that's a naive, nostalgic view though, because without an active suspension for example, even with BMW's suspension 'magic' the E46 M3 was considered 'rock hard'. But active suspensions really allow a car to be MUCH more versatile, providing more comfort when not in a demanding situation AND more capable in demanding situations than 'dumb' suspensions.
And let's face it, we all have to drive on real roads, not some super smooth track, so that's a GIGANTIC compromise right there.
Variable ratio or assist power steering may not be 'purist' but we all have to park in the supermarket parking lot.
The 'purity' of a 1974 Porshce 911 makes it hard to drive, uncomfortable, and extremely unforgiving nearing the limit.
No thanks, I'll take less purity/minimalism and more technology.
I think most purists at least 'think' they are minimalists, believing that 'essence' you speak of only comes without 'electronic nannies' and no 'steenkin' auto tranny.
You see this a lot in magazine car reviews by old geezers. But I think that's a naive, nostalgic view though, because without an active suspension for example, even with BMW's suspension 'magic' the E46 M3 was considered 'rock hard'. But active suspensions really allow a car to be MUCH more versatile, providing more comfort when not in a demanding situation AND more capable in demanding situations than 'dumb' suspensions.
And let's face it, we all have to drive on real roads, not some super smooth track, so that's a GIGANTIC compromise right there.
Variable ratio or assist power steering may not be 'purist' but we all have to park in the supermarket parking lot.
The 'purity' of a 1974 Porshce 911 makes it hard to drive, uncomfortable, and extremely unforgiving nearing the limit.
No thanks, I'll take less purity/minimalism and more technology.
But I can also see what you mean in a stricter sense.
Last edited by XeroK00L; 07-12-07 at 07:31 PM.
07-12-07, 09:23 PM
#41
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Hmm I was just talking about purists in a broader sense. For example, a "Buick purist", if one exists, would demand the most boat-like ride possible in a Buick, as it is the essence of what Buick is known for. If one day Buick starts making a "minimalist" car like a Lotus Elise, that would be considered a non-purist car.
But I can also see what you mean in a stricter sense.
But I can also see what you mean in a stricter sense.
BMW.
07-13-07, 06:57 AM
#43
Actually going back to the posts from m3post...these BMW guys are surely torn up over the luke warm reviews of their M3.
Like I mentioned above, a new RS4 will be here in a few years, and an RS5 in probably just a few months. RS5 vs. M3 Coupe is the battle I am really waiting for.
And also... C63 VS. M3 Sedan VS. IS-F VS. RS4
Like I mentioned above, a new RS4 will be here in a few years, and an RS5 in probably just a few months. RS5 vs. M3 Coupe is the battle I am really waiting for.
And also... C63 VS. M3 Sedan VS. IS-F VS. RS4
