DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

The 335D must be one slow car..

Och

iTrader: (3)

Power does not automatically equal to luxury, but keep in mind that Yuropean versions of "premium" automobiles are often so under equipped that it leaves you wondering where the premium part is.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Because 320D doesn't exist, right?

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Under eqipped how? You make these cars your way.. Try configuring a Porshe 911..

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Not in the USA.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I was talking about EU versions where most cars come equipped with small engines and basic set of features.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

EU versions can be equipped just like the variants in the U.S.A. Choices my friend..

Och

iTrader: (3)

Read the whole thread so we wont have to go in circles.

The G Man

IMO, the direction Lexus is heading right now, they will not be #1 in the US for muc longer. Didnt BMW or MB sold more cars in the US this year than Lexus so far.

LexFather

Bingo

Its a possibility I've stated for 2 years now. I thought BMW would have been #1 in America last year in sales.

We can really only speculate the why's behind the difference in sales. BMW/Lexus are by far ahead of Benz and Benz is far ahead of everyone else.

We will have quite a few luxury brands not sell/barely sell 100k cars here this year.

The G Man

Because Americans are obsess with being #1, we have to be the best at everything and we want the best when we buy cars. BMW is the best performance wise and Lexus is the best reliability. We overlook other manufacturers that makes cars that are good at a number of things, a Jack of all trade sort of speak.

DustinV

Culture also influences how cars are styled, built etc.

I generally try to have an open mind. I like cars from all over.


Right on. Lexus is still young and new. Eventually they'll earn their prestige (I hope) through other means as well (motorsport perhaps).


I don't think Lexus should think about this yet. It is way too early and even if, they really won't have anything to show for it. Right now, the only real Lexus products that could be showcased in a museum are the original LS400 and maybe (just maybe) the LS600h. In my opinion of course.


That's the point of forum - people can disagree and argue!

I still think marketing was the main reason these cars failed. BMW failed to convince people what made the 3 series compact so special. The engine under the hood didn't help either. The rest of the car was fine. People just didn't know what the point of this car was.

The same thing was essentially true of the C class sportcoupe. People thought it was a sports-biased machine - it wasn't. The engine was powerful by most accounts but the refinement was totally lacking. After the facelift the cheap interior got better but I guess the damage was done. People just didn't know what the point of this car was - like the 3 series compact.

Both these cars would have excelled in attracting new customers to both BMW and Mercedes because in comparison to other products of their respective firms they were "affordable" (for that specific young rich crowd). There just wasn't enough marketing effort to really push these cars into the minds of people.

DustinV

What "dog slow diesel" are you talking about specifically?

Did it ever occur to you that some people want a luxury car and don't care much about performance? Hell, most of those people probably drive Lexus cars in the United States, too. Smaller, less powerful, but more efficient engines are an alternative in Europe. An alternative that people want.

Oh, and please stop the "I was overtaken by a V6 Camry" thing. Nobody really cares about that. If you value performance then you're going to buy a model that is more powerful. Very simple. Someone driving a "dog slow diesel" really couldn't care less if a V6 Camry overtook them. What are you? A boy racer who likes to challenge everything that pulls up next to him at the light?

*Sigh* Kids...



You make it sound as if the German brands did this from the moment they were created. Slave labor usage during World War II didn't really occur until from 1940 to 1945 if memory serves me right. What I do know is that the German brands have also paid compensation payments to the victims and their families as well as an apology.

You do know that Toyota also used slave labor during World War II, right? I am curious. Did Toyota ever pay reparation payments to these former slave laborers? You tell me.

Anyway, history and heritage is something the German (European) brands have and to many people this is a very important factor as it defines or shapes the appeal of a luxury brand in their mind. Don't underestimate this factor.


Many people who value history and heritage see the "Toyota connection" when they look at a Lexus. Do they care? Some do, some don't.

Personally, I don't care much about this. I know a good product when I see one be it German, Japanese, Korean etc. I generally respect all car brands and their history but at the end of the day I want a good product that suits my needs - and I don't care about the history of the brand. I just want the good product.



And I mentioned history and heritage because many people seem to think that brand prestige is partly defined by this. Now, looking at the history of Mercedes it is hard to argue that Lexus is superior in brand prestige. What is Lexus most famous for? Reliable cars and good service and value. That's about it, really. Now look at the history of Mercedes (or BMW etc.) and look at their achievements, their success and participation in motorsport, innovation of all kinds and so on during the decades. Clearly, Lexus cannot compete here in terms of the overall picture. True, Lexus has been innovating - but so has the competition.

Like I said, I don't care who has more prestige. I want a product that suits my needs. But it is hard to claim that Lexus has as much brand prestige as its German (European) rivals - especially outside of North America, where what exactly prestige is is viewed differently.

The G Man

Even in the US, if a luxury car is offered in 2 engine size, the smaller engine always outsell the larger engine by a wide margin.

DustinV

It also makes sense.

Plus, most people who buy cars are not enthusiasts and are looking for something else (not performance so to speak).