97 supra TT v. today's sports car
07-21-07 | 05:04 AM
#61
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
From: VI
keep in mind when comparing the supra to other sports cars, that cars like the s2k/evo/350z cost half as much as the supra did when you adjust for inflation.
to its credit the supra had an outstanding engine though- toyota really overengineered it from the factory...its truly something special.
to its credit the supra had an outstanding engine though- toyota really overengineered it from the factory...its truly something special.
07-21-07 | 06:09 AM
#62
gte stock bottom engine can handle 1000rwhp comfortably. I know people with APU supra tt's that run around 700 rwhp as a daily driver without even porting the heads. in fact, even the ge-t guys can hit 700rwhp with just head gasket, rods and pistons (to lower static compression).
8 second iron block complete for $4k? try at least $10k.
i also driven a c5 and sat in a z06 before, c5 has nothing on the supra tt.
8 second iron block complete for $4k? try at least $10k.
i also driven a c5 and sat in a z06 before, c5 has nothing on the supra tt.
http://www.motorsporttech.com/c5_engine02.asp
theres nothing even here that 10k
Performance Supra
Top Speed 155.0 mph / 249.4 kph
0 - 30 mph 2.2 seconds
0 - 60 mph 5.0 seconds
0 - 100 mph 11.8 seconds
0 - ¼ mile 13.5 seconds
Lateral Acceleration 0.98g
EPA City / Hwy 18 / 23 mpg
Performance Corvette
Top Speed 175.0 mph / 281.6 kph
0 - 30 mph Not Available
0 - 60 mph 4.8 seconds
0 - 100 mph Not Available
0 - ¼ mile 13.1 seconds
Lateral Acceleration 0.93g
EPA City / Hwy 19 / 28 mpg
07-21-07 | 06:11 AM
#63
8 sec iron block V8 for $4K? Show me some proof.
And I can show you links all day long too. Here is a 980 WHP stock block Supra http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature...pra/index.html
You're incorrect about the whole 2 pass thing. Perhaps some of the tuners and crews out there only run two passes before swapping out the engine, but the engine is certainly capable of more. 2JZ engines are no longer produced, and you can't get them in a crate like you can an LSx engine. Thus 2JZ engines don't grow on trees, and most tuners don't have the luxury of swapping 3 different 2JZs per day.
Here is another Supra, 1230 WHP, with a stock block AND it's streetable. It can run at 1200HP all day long. http://www.dragsport.com/issue/2004/...er_story.shtml
Please don't tell me the 2JZ can't handle those power levels period for more than 2 or 3 passes. If guys on the street are running Supras at 1200 WHP, I'm pretty sure crews like Titan Motorsports, Bullish racing or Turbonetics run their 2JZ engines at 1400+ HP all day long no problem.
Here is a 1700 HP 2JZ dragster from Bullish racing: http://www.stewartcomponents.com/pho...album=7&page=1
Bullish Racing's championship winning 2JZ Toyota Solara runs at 1600HP.
We all know LSx engines are amazing, but so is the 2JZ. Let's also not forget that the LSx engines have a huge displacement advantage over the 2JZ, which in theory makes it easier for them to make big power.
And I can show you links all day long too. Here is a 980 WHP stock block Supra http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature...pra/index.html
You're incorrect about the whole 2 pass thing. Perhaps some of the tuners and crews out there only run two passes before swapping out the engine, but the engine is certainly capable of more. 2JZ engines are no longer produced, and you can't get them in a crate like you can an LSx engine. Thus 2JZ engines don't grow on trees, and most tuners don't have the luxury of swapping 3 different 2JZs per day.
Here is another Supra, 1230 WHP, with a stock block AND it's streetable. It can run at 1200HP all day long. http://www.dragsport.com/issue/2004/...er_story.shtml
Please don't tell me the 2JZ can't handle those power levels period for more than 2 or 3 passes. If guys on the street are running Supras at 1200 WHP, I'm pretty sure crews like Titan Motorsports, Bullish racing or Turbonetics run their 2JZ engines at 1400+ HP all day long no problem.
Here is a 1700 HP 2JZ dragster from Bullish racing: http://www.stewartcomponents.com/pho...album=7&page=1
Bullish Racing's championship winning 2JZ Toyota Solara runs at 1600HP.
We all know LSx engines are amazing, but so is the 2JZ. Let's also not forget that the LSx engines have a huge displacement advantage over the 2JZ, which in theory makes it easier for them to make big power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVHi8pIgUqA
my buddy steve won Pump gas Drags this year, with help of my other friend Jeff that owns PSI
http://home.comcast.net/~shiznityz28...Drags_2007.wmvthis car is an 8sec street car btw on race gas and no shop car
Lets just say i know alittle bit about ls1s and how much it cost to build one.
Last edited by MDSC; 07-21-07 at 06:45 AM.
07-21-07 | 06:50 PM
#64
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 0
From: California
As a previous owner of a Supra, I can tell you that stock vs. those cars you have listed, the Supra feels like a dated machine. After going with a single turbo, a beast was unleashed. I have blown the doors off 911 turbos and ZO6's. The Supra is a glorified Freeway car. I was pretty much undefeated on the freeway for the 10 months I was single.
On the track, it is a different story. These cars were designed to be a GT car, not so much a track car like the RX-7, evo, sti or S2k were designed for. The car is just too heavy to be thrown around the corners in high speed. It can be done with a good amount of suspension tuning, but the Supra would not be my first choice.
What does a 400, 500, and 600hp Supra have in common? They all run 11s. Many Supra owners have this misconception that if they put all their money into their motors and build a dyno queen, they can be the fastest guy on the 1/4. They forget that suspension tuning plays a big key when running the 1/4. Out of the box though, the Supra is a close competitor to the cars you have listed.
Performance wise, the Supra will hold its own in comparison to today's sports cars. But in the end, it just feels dated. The design of the car is indeed over 14 years old. You do not have the luxuries of today's cars, such as keyless entry, navi, bluetooth, etc. The car will have its share of squeaks and rattles.
I believe there is only one car which comes close to the tuning potential of the Supra and that is the BMW 335i. I have dubbed it the "European Supra" with its inline 6, twin turbo configuration and its essential GT status. Out of the box, they have been dynoed at 285hp to the wheels. With just a chip and full exhaust, people have been putting out close to 400hp and over 400 lbs of tq. I have sold my Supra last week and have not looked back at all. I have already ordered and am currently awaiting delivery of my BMW.
On the track, it is a different story. These cars were designed to be a GT car, not so much a track car like the RX-7, evo, sti or S2k were designed for. The car is just too heavy to be thrown around the corners in high speed. It can be done with a good amount of suspension tuning, but the Supra would not be my first choice.
What does a 400, 500, and 600hp Supra have in common? They all run 11s. Many Supra owners have this misconception that if they put all their money into their motors and build a dyno queen, they can be the fastest guy on the 1/4. They forget that suspension tuning plays a big key when running the 1/4. Out of the box though, the Supra is a close competitor to the cars you have listed.
Performance wise, the Supra will hold its own in comparison to today's sports cars. But in the end, it just feels dated. The design of the car is indeed over 14 years old. You do not have the luxuries of today's cars, such as keyless entry, navi, bluetooth, etc. The car will have its share of squeaks and rattles.
I believe there is only one car which comes close to the tuning potential of the Supra and that is the BMW 335i. I have dubbed it the "European Supra" with its inline 6, twin turbo configuration and its essential GT status. Out of the box, they have been dynoed at 285hp to the wheels. With just a chip and full exhaust, people have been putting out close to 400hp and over 400 lbs of tq. I have sold my Supra last week and have not looked back at all. I have already ordered and am currently awaiting delivery of my BMW.
07-21-07 | 07:25 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
I know that MSP keeps 3 engines for their solara in the trailer and i've persoanlly watched as they swaped 2 engines in their mid 7 second car in between passes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVHi8pIgUqA
my buddy steve won Pump gas Drags this year, with help of my other friend Jeff that owns PSI
http://home.comcast.net/~shiznityz28...Drags_2007.wmvthis car is an 8sec street car btw on race gas and no shop car
Lets just say i know alittle bit about ls1s and how much it cost to build one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVHi8pIgUqA
my buddy steve won Pump gas Drags this year, with help of my other friend Jeff that owns PSI
http://home.comcast.net/~shiznityz28...Drags_2007.wmvthis car is an 8sec street car btw on race gas and no shop car
Lets just say i know alittle bit about ls1s and how much it cost to build one.
Again, all the other teams and crews I listed don't swap engines that often.
It's cool that you know about LS1s, but I know about LSx engines as well. If you're trying to prove that the LSx engines are superior over the 2JZ, then it's a fool's argument because in my mind (and in the minds of many teams, crews, and experienced race guys out there) the engines are both roughly equal, each one having their own strengths and weaknesses. Let's also keep in mind the LSx engines are based on the original small block, and because of that the aftermarket is enormous for them, bigger than the 2JZ. In other words, there is a decades-old aftermarket out there for the LSx small block engines, unlike for the 2JZ where the aftermarket is only around a decade strong.
Originally Posted by MrJohnTan
What does a 400, 500, and 600hp Supra have in common? They all run 11s.
Originally Posted by MrJohnTan
I believe there is only one car which comes close to the tuning potential of the Supra and that is the BMW 335i. I have dubbed it the "European Supra" with its inline 6, twin turbo configuration and its essential GT status. Out of the box, they have been dynoed at 285hp to the wheels. With just a chip and full exhaust, people have been putting out close to 400hp and over 400 lbs of tq. I have sold my Supra last week and have not looked back at all. I have already ordered and am currently awaiting delivery of my BMW.
07-22-07 | 03:04 AM
#66
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 127
From: Silicon Valley
Um yes, you're talking about an essentially decade old car versus these newer gen vehicles. On the track, it is a different story. These cars were designed to be a GT car, not so much a track car like the RX-7, evo, sti or S2k were designed for. The car is just too heavy to be thrown around the corners in high speed. It can be done with a good amount of suspension tuning, but the Supra would not be my first choice.
What does a 400, 500, and 600hp Supra have in common? They all run 11s. Many Supra owners have this misconception that if they put all their money into their motors and build a dyno queen, they can be the fastest guy on the 1/4. They forget that suspension tuning plays a big key when running the 1/4. Out of the box though, the Supra is a close competitor to the cars you have listed.
Performance wise, the Supra will hold its own in comparison to today's sports cars. But in the end, it just feels dated. The design of the car is indeed over 14 years old. You do not have the luxuries of today's cars, such as keyless entry, navi, bluetooth, etc. The car will have its share of squeaks and rattles.
I believe there is only one car which comes close to the tuning potential of the Supra and that is the BMW 335i. I have dubbed it the "European Supra" with its inline 6, twin turbo configuration and its essential GT status. Out of the box, they have been dynoed at 285hp to the wheels. With just a chip and full exhaust, people have been putting out close to 400hp and over 400 lbs of tq. I have sold my Supra last week and have not looked back at all. I have already ordered and am currently awaiting delivery of my BMW.
Don't get me wrong, as I said, I like the 335i as much as the next person, but there's no need to belittle the Supra on account of your current tastes and try to bloat the Bimmer too.
07-22-07 | 10:43 AM
#67
Virtually all crews try to keep backup engines. Doesn't matter if it's a JZ powered car or an LSx powered car. On the track, anything can happen. Some crews can afford to have more spare engines than others who may have none at all. MSP is a big team, and just because you've seen them swap 2 or 3 engines in one day doesn't mean they do it everyday.
Again, all the other teams and crews I listed don't swap engines that often.
It's cool that you know about LS1s, but I know about LSx engines as well. If you're trying to prove that the LSx engines are superior over the 2JZ, then it's a fool's argument because in my mind (and in the minds of many teams, crews, and experienced race guys out there) the engines are both roughly equal, each one having their own strengths and weaknesses. Let's also keep in mind the LSx engines are based on the original small block, and because of that the aftermarket is enormous for them, bigger than the 2JZ. In other words, there is a decades-old aftermarket out there for the LSx small block engines, unlike for the 2JZ where the aftermarket is only around a decade strong.
That's a misconception. What those Supras have in common is that they are not properly tuned and modded and therefore don't have the traction or grip to handle all that power.
Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. The Supra has been out there on the market for a long time, the 335i only recently came out. When we start seeing 335i machines making over 1000HP on the stock block, and winning drag car or Super GT competitions left, right, and centre then perhaps we can compare it to the Supra.
Again, all the other teams and crews I listed don't swap engines that often.
It's cool that you know about LS1s, but I know about LSx engines as well. If you're trying to prove that the LSx engines are superior over the 2JZ, then it's a fool's argument because in my mind (and in the minds of many teams, crews, and experienced race guys out there) the engines are both roughly equal, each one having their own strengths and weaknesses. Let's also keep in mind the LSx engines are based on the original small block, and because of that the aftermarket is enormous for them, bigger than the 2JZ. In other words, there is a decades-old aftermarket out there for the LSx small block engines, unlike for the 2JZ where the aftermarket is only around a decade strong.
That's a misconception. What those Supras have in common is that they are not properly tuned and modded and therefore don't have the traction or grip to handle all that power.
Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. The Supra has been out there on the market for a long time, the 335i only recently came out. When we start seeing 335i machines making over 1000HP on the stock block, and winning drag car or Super GT competitions left, right, and centre then perhaps we can compare it to the Supra.
07-22-07 | 10:46 AM
#68
As a previous owner of a Supra, I can tell you that stock vs. those cars you have listed, the Supra feels like a dated machine. After going with a single turbo, a beast was unleashed. I have blown the doors off 911 turbos and ZO6's. The Supra is a glorified Freeway car. I was pretty much undefeated on the freeway for the 10 months I was single.
On the track, it is a different story. These cars were designed to be a GT car, not so much a track car like the RX-7, evo, sti or S2k were designed for. The car is just too heavy to be thrown around the corners in high speed. It can be done with a good amount of suspension tuning, but the Supra would not be my first choice.
What does a 400, 500, and 600hp Supra have in common? They all run 11s. Many Supra owners have this misconception that if they put all their money into their motors and build a dyno queen, they can be the fastest guy on the 1/4. They forget that suspension tuning plays a big key when running the 1/4. Out of the box though, the Supra is a close competitor to the cars you have listed.
Performance wise, the Supra will hold its own in comparison to today's sports cars. But in the end, it just feels dated. The design of the car is indeed over 14 years old. You do not have the luxuries of today's cars, such as keyless entry, navi, bluetooth, etc. The car will have its share of squeaks and rattles.
I believe there is only one car which comes close to the tuning potential of the Supra and that is the BMW 335i. I have dubbed it the "European Supra" with its inline 6, twin turbo configuration and its essential GT status. Out of the box, they have been dynoed at 285hp to the wheels. With just a chip and full exhaust, people have been putting out close to 400hp and over 400 lbs of tq. I have sold my Supra last week and have not looked back at all. I have already ordered and am currently awaiting delivery of my BMW.
On the track, it is a different story. These cars were designed to be a GT car, not so much a track car like the RX-7, evo, sti or S2k were designed for. The car is just too heavy to be thrown around the corners in high speed. It can be done with a good amount of suspension tuning, but the Supra would not be my first choice.
What does a 400, 500, and 600hp Supra have in common? They all run 11s. Many Supra owners have this misconception that if they put all their money into their motors and build a dyno queen, they can be the fastest guy on the 1/4. They forget that suspension tuning plays a big key when running the 1/4. Out of the box though, the Supra is a close competitor to the cars you have listed.
Performance wise, the Supra will hold its own in comparison to today's sports cars. But in the end, it just feels dated. The design of the car is indeed over 14 years old. You do not have the luxuries of today's cars, such as keyless entry, navi, bluetooth, etc. The car will have its share of squeaks and rattles.
I believe there is only one car which comes close to the tuning potential of the Supra and that is the BMW 335i. I have dubbed it the "European Supra" with its inline 6, twin turbo configuration and its essential GT status. Out of the box, they have been dynoed at 285hp to the wheels. With just a chip and full exhaust, people have been putting out close to 400hp and over 400 lbs of tq. I have sold my Supra last week and have not looked back at all. I have already ordered and am currently awaiting delivery of my BMW.
07-22-07 | 11:31 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
you obviously dont know anything about lsx if you think that the parts are decades long, i have an lt1 and nothing but lifters are intechangeble between the 2. Lt1 is more of an old small block, buttom end, top end, block is still different and reverse cooled heads wont fit a conventional small block. Ls1 are even more different. You sound like you kinda know what your talking about but unfortenatly calling a ls1 just another conventional small block is stupid. Its a v8 and its pushrod and it ends there.
The Chevy small block has decades of development and aftermarket support behind it. Toyota's 2JZ is loosely based on it's predecessor, the inline 6 7M engine. My point was that OVERALL, the small block has seen much more development work and aftermarket support than any Toyota engine, including the JZ. The fact that the JZ can stand up to any LSx engine is thus remarkable.
07-22-07 | 01:04 PM
#71
07-22-07 | 01:06 PM
#72
You didn't read what I said. I said the LSx engines are based on the original small block. GM engineers themselves have said this.
The Chevy small block has decades of development and aftermarket support behind it. Toyota's 2JZ is loosely based on it's predecessor, the inline 6 7M engine. My point was that OVERALL, the small block has seen much more development work and aftermarket support than any Toyota engine, including the JZ. The fact that the JZ can stand up to any LSx engine is thus remarkable.
The Chevy small block has decades of development and aftermarket support behind it. Toyota's 2JZ is loosely based on it's predecessor, the inline 6 7M engine. My point was that OVERALL, the small block has seen much more development work and aftermarket support than any Toyota engine, including the JZ. The fact that the JZ can stand up to any LSx engine is thus remarkable.
07-22-07 | 10:14 PM
#73
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 0
From: ca
Supra compared to today's cars? Those cars you mentioned can't hold a candle to the King, it was insanely quick and 400 hp for a few hundred bucks was the norm in terms of mods. Only Z06 or 911 Turbos are even in the same league. They dust Ferraris, bikes, damn, pretty much anything and hung with Vipers in all the races I've seen.
07-22-07 | 11:13 PM
#74
Wheel Vendor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 1
From: New York
Supra compared to today's cars? Those cars you mentioned can't hold a candle to the King, it was insanely quick and 400 hp for a few hundred bucks was the norm in terms of mods. Only Z06 or 911 Turbos are even in the same league. They dust Ferraris, bikes, damn, pretty much anything and hung with Vipers in all the races I've seen.
07-23-07 | 10:27 AM
#75
Supra compared to today's cars? Those cars you mentioned can't hold a candle to the King, it was insanely quick and 400 hp for a few hundred bucks was the norm in terms of mods. Only Z06 or 911 Turbos are even in the same league. They dust Ferraris, bikes, damn, pretty much anything and hung with Vipers in all the races I've seen.