Do the Chinese get better Buicks than we do ? (Buick lineup to get Chinese-infusion)
07-22-07, 07:21 PM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Do the Chinese get better Buicks than we do ? (Buick lineup to get Chinese-infusion)
A very interesting article from today's Washington Post from the Post's auto writer, Warren Brown (I know Warren myself but not closely). He has been to China and has seen the Buicks sold there compared to here........here, of course, they are often (incorrectly, I might add) joked about as geezer-only vehicles. I have written and posted much on that subject myself.....the false idea that Buicks are only Grandpa and Grandma cars......so I won't go into that again in detail here. And this is Warren's article, not mine....so I'll let him do the talking here. It also seems to cast some doubt on the widely publicized image (so far) of the Chinese car industry turning out junk vehicles, although, admittedly, Buick is an American nameplate and not a Chinese one. Chinese-nameplate vehicles have a reputation for being junk, though I will reserve final judgement on that until I see the still-coming Cherys for myself next year when they arrive in the U.S. with Dodge nameplates.
Anyhow, the Chinese Buicks......from an eyewitness:
Bringing Home a Good Lesson Learned in China
By Warren Brown
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 22, 2007; Page G01
To understand the 2008 Buick Enclave, you've got to understand the luxury segment of the Chinese automobile market in which Buick is a top seller.
That's Buick as in B-U-I-C-K, long an ignored player in the U.S. automobile business and frequently the butt of geriatric jokes, as in: "He's so old he still drives a Buick."
2008 Buick Enclave (Gm/wieck - GM via AP)
2008 Buick Enclave CXL
Complaints: We drove this one nearly 700 miles loaded and unloaded. (Ria managed to stuff it with 600 pounds of luggage and still have space for three people.) That's not enough driving to find out everything that might be wrong with a vehicle. But it's enough to decide that we like the Enclave CXL pretty much the way it was delivered to us. No complaints at this writing.
Drive, acceleration and handling: Ride and handling are superior. Acceleration is very good. The Enclave has the best riding position of any crossover utility vehicle, wagon, minivan or sport-utility vehicle we've tested so far. Drivers have a nearly 360-degree view of the road. That inspires confidence behind the wheel. Acceleration will please normal drivers, such as those who understand that the Enclave is a family hauler, as opposed to a race car.
Head-turning quotient: Beautiful exterior sculpture, exquisite interior, all rendered with attitude. Bravo!
Body style/layout: The Buick Enclave is a front-engine, full-size, luxury crossover utility vehicle/tall wagon. It is available with front-wheel-drive or the tested all-wheel-drive. There are two trim levels, base CX and upscale CXL.
Engine/transmission: The standard Enclave engine is a 3.6-liter, 24-valve V-6 that develops 275 horsepower at 6,600 revolutions per minute and 251 foot-pounds of torque at 3,200 revolutions per minute. The engine is mated to a six-speed automatic transmission that also can be shifted manually.
Capacities: There is seating for up to eight people depending on the seating configuration chosen. Maximum cargo capacity is 116 cubic feet. Maximum payload, the weight of what can be carried onboard, is 1,475 pounds. The Enclave can be equipped to tow up to 4,500 pounds. Fuel capacity is 22 gallons of recommended regular unleaded gasoline.
Mileage: With all of Ria's luggage, we got 19 miles per gallon on a highway run. But with only two occupants and light-to-no cargo, we got nearly 22 miles per gallon on the highway.
Safety: Side and head air bags and electronic stability and traction control are standard equipment.
Price: Base price on the tested 2008 Buick Enclave CXL with all-wheel-drive is $36,255. Dealer's invoice price on the base model is $33,898. Price as tested is $43,675, including $6,685 in options (onboard navigation with backup camera, rear parking proximity warning system, dual moonroof, Bose premium sound system with iPod and MP3 support capability, 19-inch chrome wheels, among other items) and a $735 destination charge. Dealer's price as tested is $40,182. Prices sourced from Buick and www.edmunds.com.
Purse-strings note: The Enclave sits at the head of the line of GM's crossover trio, including the Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia. The Outlook is friendlier to the purses of young families. The Acadia is for people who really wanted an SUV, but who can't live with the opprobrium of owning one.
Buick has been in China since 1912. There, it is a revered automotive badge, especially among the country's upper-income groups who demand top quality and who hold prestige and honor -- they call it "face" -- as sacrosanct.
Buick's status in China probably surprises many Americans, as it surprised me on several visits to Shanghai General Motors, a 50-50 joint venture between General Motors and Shanghai Automotive Industry, established in June 1997.
I said I was "surprised." That's an understatement. I was shocked beyond belief by China's acceptance of Buicks. Moreover, I was stunned by the superior quality of the Chinese Buicks I drove (on a Shanghai GM test track) and saw.
Those Buicks were better than any Buicks I'd ever driven or seen in the United States. They were solid and whisper-quiet. Fit and finish were impeccable. Interior craftsmanship -- the way materials blended with one another; the impressive attention to detail on the smallest items, such as the feel and weight of glove-compartment doors -- was awe-inspiring.
It made me angry. I became the unruly guest railing at my GM hosts for what I thought was a slap in the face to GM's home market. "Why do you guys give this kind of Buick to the Chinese while giving us crappy Buicks at home?" I asked.
I was in no mood for polite talk. Nor was I mollified by an answer from one of the Shanghai GM officials: "This is what the Chinese market expects from Buick," he said.
Say what?
I wanted to punch him. I chose sarcasm instead.
"I suppose that means GM plans to live up to the expectations of the American market and stop selling Buicks in America," I said.
He assured me that I was wrong.
Anyhow, the Chinese Buicks......from an eyewitness:
Bringing Home a Good Lesson Learned in China
By Warren Brown
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 22, 2007; Page G01
To understand the 2008 Buick Enclave, you've got to understand the luxury segment of the Chinese automobile market in which Buick is a top seller.
That's Buick as in B-U-I-C-K, long an ignored player in the U.S. automobile business and frequently the butt of geriatric jokes, as in: "He's so old he still drives a Buick."
2008 Buick Enclave (Gm/wieck - GM via AP)
2008 Buick Enclave CXL
Complaints: We drove this one nearly 700 miles loaded and unloaded. (Ria managed to stuff it with 600 pounds of luggage and still have space for three people.) That's not enough driving to find out everything that might be wrong with a vehicle. But it's enough to decide that we like the Enclave CXL pretty much the way it was delivered to us. No complaints at this writing.
Drive, acceleration and handling: Ride and handling are superior. Acceleration is very good. The Enclave has the best riding position of any crossover utility vehicle, wagon, minivan or sport-utility vehicle we've tested so far. Drivers have a nearly 360-degree view of the road. That inspires confidence behind the wheel. Acceleration will please normal drivers, such as those who understand that the Enclave is a family hauler, as opposed to a race car.
Head-turning quotient: Beautiful exterior sculpture, exquisite interior, all rendered with attitude. Bravo!
Body style/layout: The Buick Enclave is a front-engine, full-size, luxury crossover utility vehicle/tall wagon. It is available with front-wheel-drive or the tested all-wheel-drive. There are two trim levels, base CX and upscale CXL.
Engine/transmission: The standard Enclave engine is a 3.6-liter, 24-valve V-6 that develops 275 horsepower at 6,600 revolutions per minute and 251 foot-pounds of torque at 3,200 revolutions per minute. The engine is mated to a six-speed automatic transmission that also can be shifted manually.
Capacities: There is seating for up to eight people depending on the seating configuration chosen. Maximum cargo capacity is 116 cubic feet. Maximum payload, the weight of what can be carried onboard, is 1,475 pounds. The Enclave can be equipped to tow up to 4,500 pounds. Fuel capacity is 22 gallons of recommended regular unleaded gasoline.
Mileage: With all of Ria's luggage, we got 19 miles per gallon on a highway run. But with only two occupants and light-to-no cargo, we got nearly 22 miles per gallon on the highway.
Safety: Side and head air bags and electronic stability and traction control are standard equipment.
Price: Base price on the tested 2008 Buick Enclave CXL with all-wheel-drive is $36,255. Dealer's invoice price on the base model is $33,898. Price as tested is $43,675, including $6,685 in options (onboard navigation with backup camera, rear parking proximity warning system, dual moonroof, Bose premium sound system with iPod and MP3 support capability, 19-inch chrome wheels, among other items) and a $735 destination charge. Dealer's price as tested is $40,182. Prices sourced from Buick and www.edmunds.com.
Purse-strings note: The Enclave sits at the head of the line of GM's crossover trio, including the Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia. The Outlook is friendlier to the purses of young families. The Acadia is for people who really wanted an SUV, but who can't live with the opprobrium of owning one.
Buick has been in China since 1912. There, it is a revered automotive badge, especially among the country's upper-income groups who demand top quality and who hold prestige and honor -- they call it "face" -- as sacrosanct.
Buick's status in China probably surprises many Americans, as it surprised me on several visits to Shanghai General Motors, a 50-50 joint venture between General Motors and Shanghai Automotive Industry, established in June 1997.
I said I was "surprised." That's an understatement. I was shocked beyond belief by China's acceptance of Buicks. Moreover, I was stunned by the superior quality of the Chinese Buicks I drove (on a Shanghai GM test track) and saw.
Those Buicks were better than any Buicks I'd ever driven or seen in the United States. They were solid and whisper-quiet. Fit and finish were impeccable. Interior craftsmanship -- the way materials blended with one another; the impressive attention to detail on the smallest items, such as the feel and weight of glove-compartment doors -- was awe-inspiring.
It made me angry. I became the unruly guest railing at my GM hosts for what I thought was a slap in the face to GM's home market. "Why do you guys give this kind of Buick to the Chinese while giving us crappy Buicks at home?" I asked.
I was in no mood for polite talk. Nor was I mollified by an answer from one of the Shanghai GM officials: "This is what the Chinese market expects from Buick," he said.
Say what?
I wanted to punch him. I chose sarcasm instead.
"I suppose that means GM plans to live up to the expectations of the American market and stop selling Buicks in America," I said.
He assured me that I was wrong.
07-22-07, 10:01 PM
#3
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yea its weird, the US automakers do have some nice cars, like the COSWORTH, it isn't until recently they started importing them like OPEL, etc. Here all they seem to make are big block old tech cars with spotty reliability and trucks.
07-22-07, 10:28 PM
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I think GM in general in China is strong. I like the Buicks here and in China. I think Buick is a very solid brand.
http://autoreview.belproject.com/item/17
http://autoreview.belproject.com/item/17
07-23-07, 10:13 AM
#7
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China's market is many times larger than the U.S. and GM wants a foothold. Makes perfect sense.
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07-23-07, 03:38 PM
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07-24-07, 03:19 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
More like China's POTENTIAL market. Its new-car market is still not the size of ours because of their much lower per-capita income, but the increasing availability of new cars and the ultra-low prices of some of the small cars now sold there are helping to make up for that. It is indeed a potentially huge market....but they will also need an infrastructure for it...particularly more roads, but that, of course, is a subject for another thread topic.
07-24-07, 07:21 AM
#14
Out of Warranty
Agreed! Buicks or any other luxury model faces a rather small market at present in China, and for now, that's a good thing. It allows the manufacturer to bring his manufacturing process up to speed slowly, a luxury not afforded in the US.
As the "owner" of a number of company cars when I was part of corporate America, I learned a Buick, even with a company-restricted options list, could be forged into a very nice piece of transportation hardware with a few judicious checkmarks. I was once driving a Buick LeSabre Limited, while my VP was driving a full boat Olds 98. Both had the same 350 engine, but mine (thanks to a little midnight requisition) had a set of load-leveler air shocks at the rear, and a set of Bilsteins up front.
My boss traded cars with me for a weekend because he was curious - having ridden with me on a trip or two. His 98 Brougham was a pig. Beautiful but still a pig. It handled like the QE II and somehow had Cream of Wheat in the shock absorbers. It drove, particularly in a stiff crosswind like a yacht in a gale. In comparison, a few "heavy duty" suspension and brake components acquired by ticking off that "trailering package" box, plus the shock upgrade (and later, vastly improved tires) turned my LeSabre into a comfortable cruiser with surprisingly good handling characteristics. I wound up ordering an modding the boss's car every year thereafter, while his secretary selected the colors.
Had I access to the full factory options sheet, and not have to sneak things past the bean counters. I could probably have built a very nice car indeed - a year or two later I did just that for my Dad's new LeSabre. It was amazing. Buick has long had the reputation of being an "old man's car", but as I approach old-manhood myself, I don't think those geezers were so dumb. To my mind, if you work the options list carefully, the best of the Big 3 still wears a Buick badge.
As the "owner" of a number of company cars when I was part of corporate America, I learned a Buick, even with a company-restricted options list, could be forged into a very nice piece of transportation hardware with a few judicious checkmarks. I was once driving a Buick LeSabre Limited, while my VP was driving a full boat Olds 98. Both had the same 350 engine, but mine (thanks to a little midnight requisition) had a set of load-leveler air shocks at the rear, and a set of Bilsteins up front.
My boss traded cars with me for a weekend because he was curious - having ridden with me on a trip or two. His 98 Brougham was a pig. Beautiful but still a pig. It handled like the QE II and somehow had Cream of Wheat in the shock absorbers. It drove, particularly in a stiff crosswind like a yacht in a gale. In comparison, a few "heavy duty" suspension and brake components acquired by ticking off that "trailering package" box, plus the shock upgrade (and later, vastly improved tires) turned my LeSabre into a comfortable cruiser with surprisingly good handling characteristics. I wound up ordering an modding the boss's car every year thereafter, while his secretary selected the colors.
Had I access to the full factory options sheet, and not have to sneak things past the bean counters. I could probably have built a very nice car indeed - a year or two later I did just that for my Dad's new LeSabre. It was amazing. Buick has long had the reputation of being an "old man's car", but as I approach old-manhood myself, I don't think those geezers were so dumb. To my mind, if you work the options list carefully, the best of the Big 3 still wears a Buick badge.
Last edited by Lil4X; 07-24-07 at 07:24 AM.
07-30-07, 09:12 AM
#15
Super Moderator
Buick lineup to get Chinese-infusion
Buick lineup to get Chinese-infusion
Posted Jul 30th 2007 9:57AM
Judging by the positive reception the Chinese-marketed Buicks have been receiving here in the States, GM would be ill-advised to continue offering the same warmed-over products that it's been selling over the past decade. According to Automotive News, the General sees the writing on the wall and intends to go global with the new look of Buick, originally shown at the Shanghai Motor Show in the shape of the Riviera concept.
The idea is to make Buick an affordable luxury brand here in the States, and it has plans on offering a number of new vehicles to the U.S. market that will take on the high-end competitors from Japan.
To begin with, the Excelle, a small sedan, is set to be released sometime in 2008, based off the Alpha platform currently under development in Germany, while the next iteration of the LaCrosse will come in 2009 and will be based off of GM's Epsilon 2 underpinnings. The Lucerne will get a full makeover in 2011 and will be built around the RWD Zeta platform, and the Rainier, Rendezvous and Terraza will die off after the current production run, and replaced with the new Enclave.
Buick's move to become more things to more people is the only way the marque will survive, and judging by what's in the pipeline, the automaker actually has a chance at success.
Posted Jul 30th 2007 9:57AM
Judging by the positive reception the Chinese-marketed Buicks have been receiving here in the States, GM would be ill-advised to continue offering the same warmed-over products that it's been selling over the past decade. According to Automotive News, the General sees the writing on the wall and intends to go global with the new look of Buick, originally shown at the Shanghai Motor Show in the shape of the Riviera concept.
The idea is to make Buick an affordable luxury brand here in the States, and it has plans on offering a number of new vehicles to the U.S. market that will take on the high-end competitors from Japan.
To begin with, the Excelle, a small sedan, is set to be released sometime in 2008, based off the Alpha platform currently under development in Germany, while the next iteration of the LaCrosse will come in 2009 and will be based off of GM's Epsilon 2 underpinnings. The Lucerne will get a full makeover in 2011 and will be built around the RWD Zeta platform, and the Rainier, Rendezvous and Terraza will die off after the current production run, and replaced with the new Enclave.
Buick's move to become more things to more people is the only way the marque will survive, and judging by what's in the pipeline, the automaker actually has a chance at success.