JULY 2007 Vehicles Sales
08-07-07 | 08:34 PM
#61
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: NY
You find it more exciting to add an old AWD system to an older V-8 with an older 5 speed auto? (again, I agree its a great move, but you can't seem to see me type positives about the brand)
On top of that you refuse to accept the GS 460 is coming and will be at dealer lots in the fall?
On top of that you refuse to accept the GS 460 is coming and will be at dealer lots in the fall?
If you are saying Audi is greater than Infiniti worldwide, then yes, I would agree (as they are the 3rd best selling luxury marque in the world - which would hardly classify them as "Tier II" as you suggested). However, if you are saying Audi is greater than Infiniti in the US, then you would be wrong, as Infiniti routinely outsells Audi in the U.S. Regardless, it still doesn't make Audi a Tier II company.
July 2007 U.S. Sales:
Infiniti: 9,526
Audi: 7,127
2007 YTD Sales:
Infiniti: 73,322
Audi: 52,838
Other cars/trucks that share the GS 3.5Liter:
Camry
Avalon
IS
ES
RAV4
Sienna
RX
Other cars/trucks that share the Infiniti M 3.5Liter:
G
FX
Maxima
Altima
Quest
Z
Murano
7 and 7, so where are you getting your numbers from?
08-07-07 | 09:02 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Oh, I'm sure it's coming, but who cares? The 3rd Generation GS is a flop.
How is the 3rd gen a flop? Is it b/c the mags don't love it? Edmunds thought highly of it. It met sales expectations its first 2 years. How is it a flop? It might not be the home run the 2GS was, but it is no flop.
I'm a 2x owner of the 2nd Gen GS and no matter what kind of engine upgrade/tranny upgrade they give the 3GS, it's still going to be a flop. They messed up the design and gave the car no character whatsoever. It's the most sedate design of any of the Lexus sedans when in fact, it should be the most appealing.
That is opinion. You cannot compare the 3GS forums with the M35/45 forums, the 3GS forum is far more active. The 3GS has been used in car shows representing products from Japan to America to Europe. Look at the difference in aftermarket support. The aftermarket will not support a car they feel is a flop. The 3GS does not handle has good as the M45 or 5 series but its not as bad as you color it.
This is why I say that they would be better off refreshing or better yet redesigning the GS rather than upgrade the engine or transmission. Not enough potential buyers are going to care how powerful the reported HP #'s are or how many gears it can shift into when at the end of the day it still looks like a Maxima.
Yes, we know there are Maxima/GS comparisons. That is because NIssan blatantly ripped off the entire 2GS styling cue and made every sedan resemble it in one way or another, including the M35/45 with its short hood, deck and curving roofline. The 2GS is the origanator (with the Passat/A6 debuting with short hoods, curved roofs, short decks), all others are imitators. The fact is the GS was chosen in Germany as the most stylish sedan and it's design was reviewed in both Automobile and Sports Car international. Automobile just this month called the M35/45 styling "bland" in its long term wrap up.
Audi is Tier II?? since when?
If you are saying Audi is greater than Infiniti worldwide, then yes, I would agree (as they are the 3rd best selling luxury marque in the world - which would hardly classify them as "Tier II" as you suggested). However, if you are saying Audi is greater than Infiniti in the US, then you would be wrong, as Infiniti routinely outsells Audi in the U.S. Regardless, it still doesn't make Audi a Tier II company.
Infiniti can outsell Audi, its still BELOW Audi. Infiniti has no:
S competitor or RS competitor
No true flagship
No V-12 competitor
Infiniti's lineup for 2008 is
2 car linups G and M
3 SUVs EX, FX, QX
MORE SUVs than Cars. Might as well call them the Japanese Jeep.
Audi interiors shame Infiniti's which are improved but still midpack.
July 2007 U.S. Sales:
Infiniti: 9,526
Audi: 7,127
2007 YTD Sales:
Infiniti: 73,322
Audi: 52,838
Fewer?
Other cars/trucks that share the GS 3.5Liter:
Camry
Avalon
IS
ES
RAV4
Sienna
RX
Other cars/trucks that share the Infiniti M 3.5Liter:
G
FX
Maxima
Altima
Quest
Z
Murano
7 and 7, so where are you getting your numbers from?
Hmm, good point about the 3.5 in both brands, looks like I was wrong. Again, the GS and IS have direct injection, separating them from Toyotas.
How is the 3rd gen a flop? Is it b/c the mags don't love it? Edmunds thought highly of it. It met sales expectations its first 2 years. How is it a flop? It might not be the home run the 2GS was, but it is no flop.
I'm a 2x owner of the 2nd Gen GS and no matter what kind of engine upgrade/tranny upgrade they give the 3GS, it's still going to be a flop. They messed up the design and gave the car no character whatsoever. It's the most sedate design of any of the Lexus sedans when in fact, it should be the most appealing.
That is opinion. You cannot compare the 3GS forums with the M35/45 forums, the 3GS forum is far more active. The 3GS has been used in car shows representing products from Japan to America to Europe. Look at the difference in aftermarket support. The aftermarket will not support a car they feel is a flop. The 3GS does not handle has good as the M45 or 5 series but its not as bad as you color it.
This is why I say that they would be better off refreshing or better yet redesigning the GS rather than upgrade the engine or transmission. Not enough potential buyers are going to care how powerful the reported HP #'s are or how many gears it can shift into when at the end of the day it still looks like a Maxima.
Yes, we know there are Maxima/GS comparisons. That is because NIssan blatantly ripped off the entire 2GS styling cue and made every sedan resemble it in one way or another, including the M35/45 with its short hood, deck and curving roofline. The 2GS is the origanator (with the Passat/A6 debuting with short hoods, curved roofs, short decks), all others are imitators. The fact is the GS was chosen in Germany as the most stylish sedan and it's design was reviewed in both Automobile and Sports Car international. Automobile just this month called the M35/45 styling "bland" in its long term wrap up.
Audi is Tier II?? since when?
If you are saying Audi is greater than Infiniti worldwide, then yes, I would agree (as they are the 3rd best selling luxury marque in the world - which would hardly classify them as "Tier II" as you suggested). However, if you are saying Audi is greater than Infiniti in the US, then you would be wrong, as Infiniti routinely outsells Audi in the U.S. Regardless, it still doesn't make Audi a Tier II company.
Infiniti can outsell Audi, its still BELOW Audi. Infiniti has no:
S competitor or RS competitor
No true flagship
No V-12 competitor
Infiniti's lineup for 2008 is
2 car linups G and M
3 SUVs EX, FX, QX
MORE SUVs than Cars. Might as well call them the Japanese Jeep.
Audi interiors shame Infiniti's which are improved but still midpack.
July 2007 U.S. Sales:
Infiniti: 9,526
Audi: 7,127
2007 YTD Sales:
Infiniti: 73,322
Audi: 52,838
Fewer?
Other cars/trucks that share the GS 3.5Liter:
Camry
Avalon
IS
ES
RAV4
Sienna
RX
Other cars/trucks that share the Infiniti M 3.5Liter:
G
FX
Maxima
Altima
Quest
Z
Murano
7 and 7, so where are you getting your numbers from?
Hmm, good point about the 3.5 in both brands, looks like I was wrong. Again, the GS and IS have direct injection, separating them from Toyotas.
08-07-07 | 09:28 PM
#64
Lexus Champion
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 2
From: CA
The GS is not necessarily racing up the charts, being at #3 or #4 behind the 5-Series and E-Class, but it is completely biased to say 'it's a flop.'
Take a look at the best-ever sales for the 2GS:
30,622 first year
30,326 second year
28,079 third year
Now take a look at sales so far for the 3GS:
33,457 first year
27,390 second year
*13,122 through July of third year
The 3GS seems to be doing fine, a better debut and then close to the performance of the 2GS despite being a more expensive vehicle and with more competitors.
Take a look at the best-ever sales for the 2GS:
30,622 first year
30,326 second year
28,079 third year
Now take a look at sales so far for the 3GS:
33,457 first year
27,390 second year
*13,122 through July of third year
The 3GS seems to be doing fine, a better debut and then close to the performance of the 2GS despite being a more expensive vehicle and with more competitors.
08-07-07 | 11:42 PM
#65
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
From: CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX View Post
MORE SUVs than Cars. Might as well call them the Japanese Jeep.
I seriously LOL'ed at this
Good read so far
-----------------------
Lexus SUV sales: 38% of all Lexus vehicles
Infiniti SUV sales: 26% of all Infiniti vehicles
If Infiniti is the Japanese Jeep, Lexus must be the Japanese Hummer
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX View Post
MORE SUVs than Cars. Might as well call them the Japanese Jeep.
I seriously LOL'ed at this
Good read so far
-----------------------
Lexus SUV sales: 38% of all Lexus vehicles
Infiniti SUV sales: 26% of all Infiniti vehicles
If Infiniti is the Japanese Jeep, Lexus must be the Japanese Hummer
08-07-07 | 11:50 PM
#66
Lexus Champion
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 2
From: CA
Well you can expect those percentages to change as they introduce the EX. Evidently they want that SUV percentage to increase! :P
Still ISICKLEX has a point-- their lineup of 2 car models + 2 SUVs will become 2 + 3 SUVs. I'm guessing a massive number of their sales are the G35/G37...so they feel they can increase volume with the G35-based EX.
Still ISICKLEX has a point-- their lineup of 2 car models + 2 SUVs will become 2 + 3 SUVs. I'm guessing a massive number of their sales are the G35/G37...so they feel they can increase volume with the G35-based EX.
08-08-07 | 12:01 AM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
LetMeShowU, it seems that you are biased against the GS. It's a sales flop? According to what, your opinion? The 3GS has met the sales goals of Lexus and has been selling at about the same pace as the 2GS despite a much more competitive market.
Just to be clear, the GS460 gets an interior/exterior refresh along with the 8 speed and 4.6L. There may be other things we don't know about that the car gets, making it a more significant change than the 2008 M. And you still doubt that the GS460 is coming? Will you doubt it even when it shows up on lexus.com?
While adding AWD to the M45 is a good move, it's only your opinion that's it's more significant than the changes the GS is getting. The 8 speed tranny remains a world's first, and you can be sure Lexus will advertise the 8 speed in the GS460.
You got it wrong in terms of the GS looking like a Maxima. The reality is that the Maxima looks like a GS. Maxima owners should feel proud that Nissan imitated the exterior profile of the 2GS, along with other carmakers like Audi with the A6 and Ford with the Mondeo.
You're also wrong in that the 3.5L in the GS is shared across a bunch of Toyota models. While the base engine block may be shared, the 3.5L in the IS and GS is unique because it has both direct and port fuel injection. The Toyota models with the 3.5L don't have direct injection. Meanwhile there is no real differentation other than tuning for the 3.5L that Infiniti and Nissan models share with the only exception being the new G which has some different engine internals.
Just to be clear, the GS460 gets an interior/exterior refresh along with the 8 speed and 4.6L. There may be other things we don't know about that the car gets, making it a more significant change than the 2008 M. And you still doubt that the GS460 is coming? Will you doubt it even when it shows up on lexus.com?
While adding AWD to the M45 is a good move, it's only your opinion that's it's more significant than the changes the GS is getting. The 8 speed tranny remains a world's first, and you can be sure Lexus will advertise the 8 speed in the GS460.
You got it wrong in terms of the GS looking like a Maxima. The reality is that the Maxima looks like a GS. Maxima owners should feel proud that Nissan imitated the exterior profile of the 2GS, along with other carmakers like Audi with the A6 and Ford with the Mondeo.
You're also wrong in that the 3.5L in the GS is shared across a bunch of Toyota models. While the base engine block may be shared, the 3.5L in the IS and GS is unique because it has both direct and port fuel injection. The Toyota models with the 3.5L don't have direct injection. Meanwhile there is no real differentation other than tuning for the 3.5L that Infiniti and Nissan models share with the only exception being the new G which has some different engine internals.
08-08-07 | 06:20 AM
#68
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: NY
That is opinion. You cannot compare the 3GS forums with the M35/45 forums, the 3GS forum is far more active. The 3GS has been used in car shows representing products from Japan to America to Europe. Look at the difference in aftermarket support. The aftermarket will not support a car they feel is a flop. The 3GS does not handle has good as the M45 or 5 series but its not as bad as you color it.
The GS doesn't even look like a luxury sedan anymore. I see nothing about it that appears any more upscale than the current model Altima. At least the competition stands out in the crowd. The GS lost so much of its character with the 3rd generation. No more quad taillights which were so unique to the 2nd Generation. No white backlit gauges. It's almost as if they were trying to make it have less character or something. So no, it's not a "bad" car, but it's not memorable. And it won't be any more memorable with a new 4.6Liter or new 8 speed tranny.
Yes, we know there are Maxima/GS comparisons. That is because NIssan blatantly ripped off the entire 2GS styling cue and made every sedan resemble it in one way or another, including the M35/45 with its short hood, deck and curving roofline. The 2GS is the origanator (with the Passat/A6 debuting with short hoods, curved roofs, short decks), all others are imitators. The fact is the GS was chosen in Germany as the most stylish sedan and it's design was reviewed in both Automobile and Sports Car international. Automobile just this month called the M35/45 styling "bland" in its long term wrap up.
Yes, the 2GS was the originator. So when Nissan started rolling out the new Altima in 2001 and the new Maxima in 2003, Lexus should have modified the looks of the 3rd Gen GS to make it more distinct. They had 2-4 years to change design course and they chose not to. By the time the new GS came out in '05, it already looked dated.
08-08-07 | 06:21 AM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX View Post
MORE SUVs than Cars. Might as well call them the Japanese Jeep.
I seriously LOL'ed at this
Good read so far
-----------------------
Lexus SUV sales: 38% of all Lexus vehicles
Infiniti SUV sales: 26% of all Infiniti vehicles
If Infiniti is the Japanese Jeep, Lexus must be the Japanese Hummer
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX View Post
MORE SUVs than Cars. Might as well call them the Japanese Jeep.
I seriously LOL'ed at this
Good read so far
-----------------------
Lexus SUV sales: 38% of all Lexus vehicles
Infiniti SUV sales: 26% of all Infiniti vehicles
If Infiniti is the Japanese Jeep, Lexus must be the Japanese Hummer
Infiniti Cars
G
M
Infiniti SUVs
EX
FX
QX
2 car lineups vs 3 SUV lineups
Lexus Cars
ES
IS
GS
SC
LS
(upcoming LF-A)
SUV
RX
GX
LX
5 Car lineups vs 3 SUV lineups
Lets look at varients
G35 sedan
G37 coupe
M35
M45
EX 35
FX 35
FX 45
QX56
Infiniti 4 SUVs vs 4 CARS
Lexus
ES 350
IS 250
IS 350
IS-F
GS 350
GS 450h
GS 460
LS 460
LS 460L
LS 600h L
SC 430
RX 350
RX 400h
GX 470
LX 570
Lexus has 11 cars vs 4 SUVs
Its not even close. Infiniti is pretty much the Japanese Jeep. Lexus product lineup is far to vast, even with 3 SUVs.
BMW-X3, X5 and upcoming X everything
Benz-MLK (coming) ML, GL, G-wagon (3 SUVs)
Audi-Q7 (Q5/3 coming)
Caddy-SRX, Escalade
Acura-RDX, MDX
So Infiniti will have as many SUVs are Lexus/Benz with a much much smaller car lineup. They will have more SUVs than BMW, Audi, Caddy and Acura.
Japanese Jeep sounds about right.
08-08-07 | 06:33 AM
#70
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: NY
O'RLY
Infiniti Cars
G
M
Infiniti SUVs
EX
FX
QX
2 car lineups vs 3 SUV lineups
Lexus Cars
ES
IS
GS
SC
LS
(upcoming LF-A)
SUV
RX
GX
LX
5 Car lineups vs 3 SUV lineups
Lets look at varients
G35 sedan
G37 coupe
M35
M45
EX 35
FX 35
FX 45
QX56
Infiniti 4 SUVs vs 4 CARS
Lexus
ES 350
IS 250
IS 350
IS-F
GS 350
GS 450h
GS 460
LS 460
LS 460L
LS 600h L
SC 430
RX 350
RX 400h
GX 470
LX 570
Lexus has 11 cars vs 4 SUVs
Its not even close. Infiniti is pretty much the Japanese Jeep. Lexus product lineup is far to vast, even with 3 SUVs.
BMW-X3, X5 and upcoming X everything
Benz-MLK (coming) ML, GL, G-wagon (3 SUVs)
Audi-Q7 (Q5/3 coming)
Caddy-SRX, Escalade
Acura-RDX, MDX
So Infiniti will have as many SUVs are Lexus/Benz with a much much smaller car lineup. They will have more SUVs than BMW, Audi, Caddy and Acura.
Japanese Jeep sounds about right.
Infiniti Cars
G
M
Infiniti SUVs
EX
FX
QX
2 car lineups vs 3 SUV lineups
Lexus Cars
ES
IS
GS
SC
LS
(upcoming LF-A)
SUV
RX
GX
LX
5 Car lineups vs 3 SUV lineups
Lets look at varients
G35 sedan
G37 coupe
M35
M45
EX 35
FX 35
FX 45
QX56
Infiniti 4 SUVs vs 4 CARS
Lexus
ES 350
IS 250
IS 350
IS-F
GS 350
GS 450h
GS 460
LS 460
LS 460L
LS 600h L
SC 430
RX 350
RX 400h
GX 470
LX 570
Lexus has 11 cars vs 4 SUVs
Its not even close. Infiniti is pretty much the Japanese Jeep. Lexus product lineup is far to vast, even with 3 SUVs.
BMW-X3, X5 and upcoming X everything
Benz-MLK (coming) ML, GL, G-wagon (3 SUVs)
Audi-Q7 (Q5/3 coming)
Caddy-SRX, Escalade
Acura-RDX, MDX
So Infiniti will have as many SUVs are Lexus/Benz with a much much smaller car lineup. They will have more SUVs than BMW, Audi, Caddy and Acura.
Japanese Jeep sounds about right.
Why is it ok to include models that are not out yet to try to prove your point, but yet you conveniently leave out others that do not prove your point? The next gen Q (a sedan) is due out next year as well (as a MY2009). Funny, I don't see that one on your list
Anyway, none of this really matters anyway. We all know that the top selling Lexus model is an SUV, yet the top selling Infiniti model is a sedan. You can twist around the facts as much as you want to try to support your case, but the fact of the matter is Infiniti sells a higher percentage of sedans than Lexus does.
08-08-07 | 06:36 AM
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
It is a flop because it has no defining qualities as an executive class midsize sports sedan and is not selling as well as it should at this stage of the game.
What in are you talking about? The M leads the GS with a couple hundred sales this year. So is the M a flop too?? No defining qualities? Every review has praised the interior as best or near best in class as well as build. How can you say a car with no lease deals, with no V-8 brother most of this year be a flop? The GS 450h has NO COMPETITION. How can the worlds first RWD HYBRID SEDAN NOT BE A DEFINING QUALITY??? NO ONE ELSE HAS IT.
Every other Lexus sedan sales are up vs. what they sold back in 1998-1999, etc. The fact that the 3rd Generation GS is only tying what the 2nd Generation sold, proves that it is a flop. At this point, it is almost embarrassing that the GS is head-to-head with the Infiniti M. You have to remember, the M sedan is still a VERY new model. The first M sedan came out in MY2003, so it is ONLY 4 years old. The GS has been around since the mid 90s. The fact that the GS is struggling to even maintain the sales it had almost a decade ago proves that it is a flop.
Did you read Enigma's post showing GS sales or you are going to ignore facts and post more rubbish?
I don't care what the magazines say. The fact is that the current GS is the only Lexus sedan that is not seeing it's numbers increase. People are buying them because they are Lexus, not because it necessarily has qualities above the competition. At this stage of the game, the GS should be taking home 3,000+ sales a month. It isn't and that is a problem (despite whatever conservative sales goals Toyota sets for itself).
Yes, you know why all people buy a GS. How can a sales goal HIGHER than the 2GS be conservative Again, read Enigma's post. The 3GS costs more yet sells more. I am not saying its a home run for Lexus, I agree Lexus missed some opportunities for the car. Its not a flop. Infiniti as a whole is a flop, 3 decent sales years does not make one ignore 15 years of awfulness.
It's not bad, but "not bad" isn't going to cut it in this class. People with deep pockets do not want to have to justify their purchases. When the M handles better, the 5 series is more powerful, and the E class looks more prestigious, why on Earth would anyone choose a 3rd Generation GS over those?
E class looks more prestigous is your opinion, I think both look fantastic. 530 and 535 are not more powerful than the GS 350 550 is more powerful than the GS 430 but not the GS 460. M handles better, I have yet to see one remotely close to the track.
The GS doesn't even look like a luxury sedan anymore. I see nothing about it that appears any more upscale than the current model Altima. At least the competition stands out in the crowd. The GS lost so much of its character with the 3rd generation. No more quad taillights which were so unique to the 2nd Generation. No white backlit gauges. It's almost as if they were trying to make it have less character or something. So no, it's not a "bad" car, but it's not memorable. And it won't be any more memorable with a new 4.6Liter or new 8 speed tranny.
Yes the GS lost some distinctiveness because Nissan knocked it off so much it simply blends in with every single Nissan/Infiniti made. We have 250,000 Altimas, 100,000 Maximas, 25,000 Ms, 40,000 Gs, 100,000 new Sentras a YEAR that look like a Lexus. OF COURSE THE GS DOES NOT STAND OUT AS MUCH ANYMORE:Currently the GS 450h is faster than any Infiniti as the IS 350. So a new 380hp GS will continue this trend, how that is not attractive is beyond me.D
Yes, the 2GS was the originator. So when Nissan started rolling out the new Altima in 2001 and the new Maxima in 2003, Lexus should have modified the looks of the 3rd Gen GS to make it more distinct. They had 2-4 years to change design course and they chose not to. By the time the new GS came out in '05, it already looked dated.
Its called L-Finesse, the 3GS was the first model out of it. Again, its not perfect to me, sometimes I really like it, sometimes its rather uhh
The GS has details in the design Nissan can only dream about. Again, the design was studied by Robert Cumberland and Sports Car International, no Infiniti has been studied by either. They are not even Infiniti designs, they are Nissans, Skyline and Fuga's brought badged as Infiniti. Big difference in philosophies and it shows in how far apart the two companies.
What in are you talking about? The M leads the GS with a couple hundred sales this year. So is the M a flop too?? No defining qualities? Every review has praised the interior as best or near best in class as well as build. How can you say a car with no lease deals, with no V-8 brother most of this year be a flop? The GS 450h has NO COMPETITION. How can the worlds first RWD HYBRID SEDAN NOT BE A DEFINING QUALITY??? NO ONE ELSE HAS IT.
Every other Lexus sedan sales are up vs. what they sold back in 1998-1999, etc. The fact that the 3rd Generation GS is only tying what the 2nd Generation sold, proves that it is a flop. At this point, it is almost embarrassing that the GS is head-to-head with the Infiniti M. You have to remember, the M sedan is still a VERY new model. The first M sedan came out in MY2003, so it is ONLY 4 years old. The GS has been around since the mid 90s. The fact that the GS is struggling to even maintain the sales it had almost a decade ago proves that it is a flop. Did you read Enigma's post showing GS sales or you are going to ignore facts and post more rubbish?
I don't care what the magazines say. The fact is that the current GS is the only Lexus sedan that is not seeing it's numbers increase. People are buying them because they are Lexus, not because it necessarily has qualities above the competition. At this stage of the game, the GS should be taking home 3,000+ sales a month. It isn't and that is a problem (despite whatever conservative sales goals Toyota sets for itself).
Yes, you know why all people buy a GS. How can a sales goal HIGHER than the 2GS be conservative
Again, read Enigma's post. The 3GS costs more yet sells more. I am not saying its a home run for Lexus, I agree Lexus missed some opportunities for the car. Its not a flop. Infiniti as a whole is a flop, 3 decent sales years does not make one ignore 15 years of awfulness.It's not bad, but "not bad" isn't going to cut it in this class. People with deep pockets do not want to have to justify their purchases. When the M handles better, the 5 series is more powerful, and the E class looks more prestigious, why on Earth would anyone choose a 3rd Generation GS over those?
E class looks more prestigous is your opinion, I think both look fantastic. 530 and 535 are not more powerful than the GS 350
550 is more powerful than the GS 430 but not the GS 460. M handles better, I have yet to see one remotely close to the track. The GS doesn't even look like a luxury sedan anymore. I see nothing about it that appears any more upscale than the current model Altima. At least the competition stands out in the crowd. The GS lost so much of its character with the 3rd generation. No more quad taillights which were so unique to the 2nd Generation. No white backlit gauges. It's almost as if they were trying to make it have less character or something. So no, it's not a "bad" car, but it's not memorable. And it won't be any more memorable with a new 4.6Liter or new 8 speed tranny.
Yes the GS lost some distinctiveness because Nissan knocked it off so much it simply blends in with every single Nissan/Infiniti made. We have 250,000 Altimas, 100,000 Maximas, 25,000 Ms, 40,000 Gs, 100,000 new Sentras a YEAR that look like a Lexus. OF COURSE THE GS DOES NOT STAND OUT AS MUCH ANYMORE:Currently the GS 450h is faster than any Infiniti as the IS 350. So a new 380hp GS will continue this trend, how that is not attractive is beyond me.D
Yes, the 2GS was the originator. So when Nissan started rolling out the new Altima in 2001 and the new Maxima in 2003, Lexus should have modified the looks of the 3rd Gen GS to make it more distinct. They had 2-4 years to change design course and they chose not to. By the time the new GS came out in '05, it already looked dated.
Its called L-Finesse, the 3GS was the first model out of it. Again, its not perfect to me, sometimes I really like it, sometimes its rather uhh
The GS has details in the design Nissan can only dream about. Again, the design was studied by Robert Cumberland and Sports Car International, no Infiniti has been studied by either. They are not even Infiniti designs, they are Nissans, Skyline and Fuga's brought badged as Infiniti. Big difference in philosophies and it shows in how far apart the two companies.Again, I am not saying the 3GS is a homerun for Lexus, I am aware of their missed opportunites for this car. Styling is not for everyone, the trunk got smaller, the carryover V-8, awful (IMO) marketing, lukewarm reviews.
I disagree that it is a flop. I think so many Lexus vehicles are grand slams that when Lexus hits a triple or double, its seen as a failure.
08-08-07 | 06:43 AM
#72
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You lose credibility when you throw in cars/models that do not yet exist. The EX is not out yet. The IS-F is not out yet. The GS460 is not out yet.
Its not losing crediblity. That would be saying "Infiniti has 3 more SUVs coming, I heard that". That would be saying "Lexus has a LF-B, LF-F etc coming". I am posting cars we are ALL WELL AWARE are debuting
Why is it ok to include models that are not out yet to try to prove your point, but yet you conveniently leave out others that do not prove your point? The next gen Q (a sedan) is due out next year as well (as a MY2009). Funny, I don't see that one on your list
No one has heard ANYTHING about a new Q. Nissan nor Infiniti have stated ANYTHING LET SHOWN A CAR OR CONCEPT OF THE Q. WHY WOULD ANYONE INCLUDE THIS CAR???? Do you not see the difference???? Lexus has shown and stated those cars are coming, Infiniti has stated the EX is coming and shown it.
You are SPECULATING on a new Q no one has seen and Nissan has never acknowledged.
Anyway, none of this really matters anyway. We all know that the top selling Lexus model is an SUV, yet the top selling Infiniti model is a sedan. You can twist around the facts as much as you want to try to support your case, but the fact of the matter is Infiniti sells a higher percentage of sedans than Lexus does.
That is the fact, the Lexus RX sells almost as many SUVs as Infiniti's ENTIRE lineup I am not twisting facts, I never said Lexus sold a higher percentage of cars vs SUVs. I Said Infiniti has 3 SUV models and 2 car models. That is what I said. Don't re-word what I said.
Its not losing crediblity. That would be saying "Infiniti has 3 more SUVs coming, I heard that". That would be saying "Lexus has a LF-B, LF-F etc coming". I am posting cars we are ALL WELL AWARE are debuting
Why is it ok to include models that are not out yet to try to prove your point, but yet you conveniently leave out others that do not prove your point? The next gen Q (a sedan) is due out next year as well (as a MY2009). Funny, I don't see that one on your list
No one has heard ANYTHING about a new Q. Nissan nor Infiniti have stated ANYTHING LET SHOWN A CAR OR CONCEPT OF THE Q. WHY WOULD ANYONE INCLUDE THIS CAR???? Do you not see the difference???? Lexus has shown and stated those cars are coming, Infiniti has stated the EX is coming and shown it.
You are SPECULATING on a new Q no one has seen and Nissan has never acknowledged.
Anyway, none of this really matters anyway. We all know that the top selling Lexus model is an SUV, yet the top selling Infiniti model is a sedan. You can twist around the facts as much as you want to try to support your case, but the fact of the matter is Infiniti sells a higher percentage of sedans than Lexus does.
That is the fact, the Lexus RX sells almost as many SUVs as Infiniti's ENTIRE lineup
I am not twisting facts, I never said Lexus sold a higher percentage of cars vs SUVs. I Said Infiniti has 3 SUV models and 2 car models. That is what I said. Don't re-word what I said.I notice you have yet to point out when I agree with you, you have yet to see any flaw in your argument (while I have admitted where I am wrong) and you are not rewording what I have stated and now you are bringing up ridiculous "credibility" statements when you just hurt your own bringing up "the Q is coming" when no one has stated that but people who WISH is comes back.
08-08-07 | 10:13 AM
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From: California
The Q45 is dead already. You can't purchase a 2007 Q45. There is none. That is more factual than fact itself. If and when Infiniti brings back the Q most likely it will be inferior and technologically behind compared to the LS 460.
The IS-F is coming. I saw it in person at the Taste of Lexus event in Irvine this past weekend and it looks amazing in person. It appears there is a 99.99% chance the IS-F will be sold to the public very soon...
The IS-F is coming. I saw it in person at the Taste of Lexus event in Irvine this past weekend and it looks amazing in person. It appears there is a 99.99% chance the IS-F will be sold to the public very soon...
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