JDM Toyota Corolla gets 280HP V6 (+ V6 Toyota Blade)
08-02-07, 12:03 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
Anybody notice they completely forgot to mention the weight? You hear Corolla and you think pocket rocket lightweight car with a powerful motor, but let's be realistic here... almost all the rest of Toyota's lineup has moved pretty much an entire size and weight class up from where it used to be only 5 years ago.
The rav4, which I think uses some derivative of the corolla chassis, is now the size of the old highlander, if not bigger (I haven't verified that, I am just basing that on my current rough observation/estimation)
I wonder what the chassis will be like though? There's only so much that tires and swapped modular suspension components can do to an existing chassis layout. I mean imagine if Lexus tried to make the LS460 compete with the M5 or something... it's just 100% impossible given the current chassis layout which is designed for reliable comfort over anything.
A similar "translation issue" happened when the original dealer spec sheets for the LS460 were posted here in PDF format... they said something about 18 or 19" brake rotors which just wasn't at all realistic. I wonder what exactly the math issue is that's causing such poor translation in specs?
The rav4, which I think uses some derivative of the corolla chassis, is now the size of the old highlander, if not bigger (I haven't verified that, I am just basing that on my current rough observation/estimation)
I wonder what the chassis will be like though? There's only so much that tires and swapped modular suspension components can do to an existing chassis layout. I mean imagine if Lexus tried to make the LS460 compete with the M5 or something... it's just 100% impossible given the current chassis layout which is designed for reliable comfort over anything.
A similar "translation issue" happened when the original dealer spec sheets for the LS460 were posted here in PDF format... they said something about 18 or 19" brake rotors which just wasn't at all realistic. I wonder what exactly the math issue is that's causing such poor translation in specs?
08-02-07, 12:17 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Anybody notice they completely forgot to mention the weight? You hear Corolla and you think pocket rocket lightweight car with a powerful motor, but let's be realistic here... almost all the rest of Toyota's lineup has moved pretty much an entire size and weight class up from where it used to be only 5 years ago.
08-02-07, 12:52 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
Point taken, but ok... the Avalon does it in 6 seconds flat... is it sporty to drive? Does it make braking and handling better? Basically as these kind of cars go you want them to be light weight for a variety of reasons... not just all out acceleration.
08-02-07, 01:14 PM
#22
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A regular Auris/Blade is about 1250kg, the V6 engine is about 80kg heavier.
I'd say it was roughly 1350kg at most.
Which is 2975lbs. Not quite a flyweight pocket rocket, but thats a little bit less than a Scion tC and 100hp more. If they give it a serious suspension, you can colour me impressed.
A Toyota awd system is about 120lbs more. So, potentially you could have a 3100lb awd, 3.5 V6 hatch....(less than the VW R32 and the Mitsubishi Evo RS). We are talking Evo IX levels of performance here... I say stick in the awd and ship it to this side of the ocean. A manual gearbox would be nice, but with great brakes and a sorted out suspension I could live without one.
p.s. I highly doubt it will have 16" brakes
p.p.s The weight differences were drawn using a Rav4 as a reference.
I'd say it was roughly 1350kg at most.
Which is 2975lbs. Not quite a flyweight pocket rocket, but thats a little bit less than a Scion tC and 100hp more. If they give it a serious suspension, you can colour me impressed.
A Toyota awd system is about 120lbs more. So, potentially you could have a 3100lb awd, 3.5 V6 hatch....(less than the VW R32 and the Mitsubishi Evo RS). We are talking Evo IX levels of performance here... I say stick in the awd and ship it to this side of the ocean. A manual gearbox would be nice, but with great brakes and a sorted out suspension I could live without one.
p.s. I highly doubt it will have 16" brakes
p.p.s The weight differences were drawn using a Rav4 as a reference.
08-02-07, 01:51 PM
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08-02-07, 02:09 PM
#27
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AWD is generally more for traction while accelerating than it is for handling. Unless it's setup kinda like Acura's SH-AWD is, then the AWD system doesn't really do anything except maintain forward traction while accelerating at the limits, which, granted sometimes improves handling at the limits by letting you power your way out of a turn - but I think, especially with people who don't take their cars to the road racing course - handling will be much moreso defined as the chassis, suspension, tires, steering, etc.
3-series and consider an A4... most results say the 3-series handles superior to the A4, despite the A4 having AWD. But put both of them on a rain-soaked or snow covered track and watch the A4 have a field day with the 3-series.
3-series and consider an A4... most results say the 3-series handles superior to the A4, despite the A4 having AWD. But put both of them on a rain-soaked or snow covered track and watch the A4 have a field day with the 3-series.
08-02-07, 04:55 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
mini coopers, mazda speed protege's, acura integra type R are all fwd. all outhandle subaru outbacks... awd don't mean shat! Toyota just doesn't have the handling down when it comes to chassis tuning, imho. whereas Mazda is known as the japanese BMW.
08-02-07, 05:16 PM
#29
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Two companies come to mind. Audi and Subaru. Both have proven AWD technology that not only provides superiora acceleration, but improves handling drastically. I think theres a little more there than concern for maintaing traction.
08-02-07, 05:18 PM
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AWD is generally more for traction while accelerating than it is for handling. Unless it's setup kinda like Acura's SH-AWD is, then the AWD system doesn't really do anything except maintain forward traction while accelerating at the limits, which, granted sometimes improves handling at the limits by letting you power your way out of a turn - but I think, especially with people who don't take their cars to the road racing course - handling will be much moreso defined as the chassis, suspension, tires, steering, etc.
3-series and consider an A4... most results say the 3-series handles superior to the A4, despite the A4 having AWD. But put both of them on a rain-soaked or snow covered track and watch the A4 have a field day with the 3-series.
3-series and consider an A4... most results say the 3-series handles superior to the A4, despite the A4 having AWD. But put both of them on a rain-soaked or snow covered track and watch the A4 have a field day with the 3-series.
AWD does not guarantee better handling, but in some cases it does help.
Originally Posted by ba-b4
mini coopers, mazda speed protege's, acura integra type R are all fwd. all outhandle subaru outbacks... awd don't mean shat! Toyota just doesn't have the handling down when it comes to chassis tuning, imho. whereas Mazda is known as the japanese BMW.
And Mazda is known as the "Japanese BMW"? Since when
? I thought Infiniti was known as the "Japanese BMW"? Excluding sportiness, Mazdas don't have anywhere near the luxury, features, or technology to make them on par with BMW. You shouldn't be so critical of Toyota; the Celica GT-S back in the day easily outhandled the Integra Type R of the day. The Celica GT-S in fact was one of the best-handling FWD cars ever made. And when the Gen 4 Supra came out in 1993, at the time it was one of the best-handling cars in the world, outhandling an NSX or RX-7.
The reason why (here in North America) we haven't seen good-handling Toyotas for a while now is not because Toyota "doesn't have the know-how", it's because Toyota chose to focus on more mainstream cars and to focus on other market segments.
Lexus has only recently begun to focus on high performance with the "F" sub-brand. With Lexus actually focusing on high performance, we will soon see how good the IS-F is, and in the coming year or two we will see how good the LF-A supercar will be.
When Toyota chooses to focus on building good handling, sporty cars branded as Toyota models, then we'll see some interesting stuff.
Mazda models today have good handling because Mazda chose to focus on sporty handling and chassis dynamics. While Mazdas have sporty handling, they lack quite a bit in many other areas ... areas which Toyota models excel at.