XeroK00L

I think that title now belongs to Infiniti.

Threxx

I don't know about world-wide, but in the US I think the general press would generally say strictly in terms of chassis tuning with those four manufacturers in budget-class vehicles... Mazda has traditionally lead the pack, and Toyota has traditionally trailed the pack.

I'm sure Toyota has had a few pretty decent chassis designs sold in the US in the middle to lower budget class vehicle range, but it's the exception.

Granted how 'good' a chassis is, is subjective... and I understand that. Some old people would argue that the BOF waterbed feeling chassis of the Lincoln Towncar is superior because that's the kinda feel they like.

I'm talking from a 'drivers car' perspective, though.

Silver GS

Some pics from Mazda forums

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attac...hmentid=113562

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attac...hmentid=113563

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attac...hmentid=113564

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attac...hmentid=113565

ba-b4

Just because Mazda makes great handling cars doesn't mean they have the rep to sell super sporty exotic cars, you're just making stuff up. Like I said before the mazda name just doesn't have the cache of bmw nor do they have the resources to produce such cars. Heck they don't even have the $$$ to bring back the RX7. Also Mazda DOES have a super high reving engine it's called the rotary.. okay yeah maybe that engine sucks for reliability but it's unique but you gotta give Mazda props for trying to develop it.

BTW I don't consider a civic a great feeling car... I don't think anyone really considers a civic a great feeling car... a mini over a civic, a protege over a civic.. Although you can say a Civic Type R IS a pretty good handling machine.

And to the dude that says an EVO or a S2000 is a great FEELING car I don't think so. They may stick like glue to a track but they don't necessarily feel good doing so. The EVO example is laughable yes it handles awesome, but without all it's electronics it's not much.

Vlad_Stein

It would be helpful if you could first define what a "great-feeling" car is and how it relates to handling. And what electronics are talking about, in case of the EVO? US specimens (v.VIII) did not have the active center diff., yet they still handle great. The benchmark does not stand still, of course, but EVO VIII will out-handle 95% of the cars on the road easily. I believe that versions IX+ have the active center diff and the viscous front LSD (no electronics there). For electronics, you have to look to Skyline GTR. By the way, you have driven the EVO without its electronics and concluded that it's not much, yes? Please share where you did so and in what way and what you compared it to so that you reached this conclusion.

SecPole14

Thanks! That perforated leather/suede dash interior is BOSS! I really hope that'll be an option here in the US, maybe this is some indication that we'll have an "XLE" version of the Blade or Corolla with a luxury interior and nice features like NAV and HIDs.

Overall, this car looks SOLID in terms of both design and assembly/materials. I'm pumped.

ba-b4

nope I have not driven an EVO without electronics just have owned a modded WRX and driven friend's STI's before. General concensus is at least on the suby boards are that STI's are better balanced but evo's do stick better due to the electronics. I HAVE driven miata's howevever and also have driven an RX8 now those are great "feeling" cars. At least I give me a better feel of what the car's limits are while cornering.

TRDFantasy

Agreed. I am doubtful though that we will see the suede dash here in the US. That interior looks more luxurious than the Camry. Fit and finish and materials seem pretty solid too. I don't think Toyota would want to out-shine the Camry or it's Lexus models in terms of interiors.

ba-b4, let me just say that the feel of a car and the ACTUAL objective handling abilities of a car are two *different* things. It looks like you have different opinions on what cars have a good "feel" and your opinion seems to differ on what exactly a "super high revving engine" is. The rotary engine I *do not* consider super high revving. To me, a super high revving engine is one that revs to over 9000RPM. The Renesis engine is close, but not quite there. Then of course there is the horrible reliability of the engine. You think a Protege has a better "feel" than a Civic? Fair enough, since we're talking about something subjective such as a car's "feel". But in terms of objective handling abilities, the Protege is not that great, and neither is a Civic. I hope you get my point, which is even if a car may FEEL good or FEEL like it handles well, it's actual handling abilities can be, and often are different than what you FEEL.

Just because an S2000 or Evo doesn't "feel" good to you, makes no difference in their factual, objective handling abilities. It also does not change the fact that an S2K or Evo will mop the floor with practically any Mazda on the racetrack, RX-8 included.

ba-b4

^I don't disagree TRDFantasy. When I said Mazda has the handleing "magic" of bmw I'm not talking about objective handling limits. The "magic" I'm talking about is how you feel when you're taking a car around the twisties. Comparing my own IS350 I'm sure objectively the handling is good but feeling wise it's not going to feel as connected as say a bmw or mazda. I'm not a super technical expert on terminology nor am I a seasoned anything track veteran so I'm not sure what exact terms to use. I just know what I like and Mazda's have more of that something that BMW's have than the other japanese car's that I've sat or driven in. That's all I'm saying.

spwolf

Auris actually drives pretty well... doesnt the blade have same multilink suspension as Auris Sport models?

Vlad_Stein

I haven't driven the STI, but from the reviews I've read I gather that EVOs are better on tarmac (older STIs used to understeer), but worse in the snow (Canadian review). STIs also have a computer-controlled center diff, don't they?
You haven't given a definition of a "great-feeling" car, but I am starting to see where you are going. I think you mean: "a car that communicates to you what it is doing and translates your inputs into dynamic changes without much insulation (numbness) or drama". EVO has a good feel, but it is not a light-weight (compared to a miata) and it is not as balanced as a RWD RX8 and its weight (stock) sits higher off the ground. So, of course, EVO or STI cannot match those 2 cars in terms of weight-related feel. Otherwise, I would think that they are pretty close.

ST430

Electronics? O.o ACD was not introduced until 2005 on the MR models. AYC is still not availble. The VLSD is mechanical in nature but does not contribute to the way handles and/or "feels" (whatever the heck that means) and was also introduced in 2005. Most of its handling prowness is in the chassis tuning, taken from a pedestrian standard Lancer FWD platform and refined on the tarmacs and rally events of the world. Objectively, it is world-class being compared to the likes of Lambos (Top Gear), Caymens (recent R&T issue), etc. Subjectively, it has also wowed professional drivers and the press alike for its razor sharp handling and cornering abilities. You citing the Evo as "laughable" is indication of your ignorance, especially having never driving one.

Back on topic - I think the blade v6 will sell well....it is basically a lower sitting, smaller, (and hopefully) lighter Rav4. For those that are put off by SUVs, but want the utility of a wagon without the looks, this would be a perfect fit.

vborder

THat is very nice, i would love to have one 280 or even 260 in a corolla stock is awesome, just think pulling up to a mustang and beating it

MR_F1

....Like you said....

In the US.

LexFather

Whats sad is the Mazdaspeed6 is now discontinued due to awful sales. So Mazda responds to what people bish and moan and say they want, then they do not buy it.