Can't believe it? Well, right now, Mike.....DON'T necessarily believe it. Wait for a little more verification from Consumer Reports. New and updated reliability figures will come out in December and April.

Now.....before you Mercedes fans start beating me over the head or calling me biased, I'm NOT saying that M-B hasn't come up a few notches. I'm just saying let's see if CR can verify it....their figures, IMO, are more credible than Power's.

 

The new ES and IS (particularly the ES) don't seem to be quite as solidly screwed together as their predecessors, but that doesn't necessarily mean actual repairs in the shop......what I found, particularly with the ES, was just annoying things like cheap-feeling parts and minor dash creaks/rattles than things that would actually require repairs under warranty. It would seem, to me, to actually be more of a customer-satisfaction issue than a true repair one....though some ES owners are complaining about quirky-shifting transmissions, just like on the 2001-2003 models.

 

Why is Oldsmobile even on this list? Didn't they go out of business? I don't get it.

Also, so much for Hyundai's improved reliability - looks as if Chevys are more reliable these days.

 

That's because this JDP Vehicle Dependability Study is on 3-year-old cars. They are still rolling out the last Oldsmobile cars back in 2004, which therefore are included in this study.

BTW, I think this study was posted here already back in August this year

 

Yep....if it was available, you probably posted it.

 

No I didn't
Click : https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...dability+study
.

 

Two things. First, once again, this chart reflects vehicles up to 3 years old, and, Second, I don't consider Power's figures to be as accurate as Consumer Reports. You are free, of course, to disagree with me, but I've always been more impressed with the way that Consumer Reports gets and processes their reliability data than Power.........and I served on a J.D. Power focus panel group for a couple of years.

CR has verified Hyundai's huge rise in quality over the last 7-10 years. Some Chevrolet products have improved.....some have not.

 

That's OK....don't worry.
You and 1SICK get virtually all of them as it is.

 

We've had this discussion before but I could not disagree with you more about CR being more credible than JD Powers.

CR has endless problems with their methodology (or lack thereof). They just aren't credible statisticians.

Here's a couple of sites pointing out their major problems.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html
http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/newdots.php

I know many are faithful fans of CR, and probably nothing I or anyone will say will change that, but they really aren't very credible.

 

Then, sorry, maybe we are going to continue to disagree.

The first source you quoted.....Allpar, a pseudo-Chrysler site...naturally, is going to be biased and anti-CR.....CR has (correctly) panned their products on many occasions for their low quality, reliability, and fit/finish.

Truedelta appears to be a little more credible but still does not give a really convincing case.

Perhaps you would care to explain your reasons why you think Power does a better job than CR....I have been looking for decades and still haven't found it.

Don't get me wrong, bit. I'm not trying to be argumentative, rude, or arrogant...........and I'm not saying that CR does its job perfectly. The way they actually review some cars, IMO, has some loopholes.....I'm not entirely impressed with that part of it. But I've been following their reliability charts since the 1960's, and their figures have closely approxomated what not only I have experienced with vehicles I've owned and driven but what others have, too. In other words, I've found out both the easy way.....and the hard way......that the CR reliability figures are usually correct. (CR was also one of the main reasons why I shifted from domestic to Japanese-designed cars in the 1980's...which eventually landed me here at CL ) Now, of course, some domestic-designed vehicles are showing hope, once again, at long last.

 

Bring back the GNX Buick.

 

Why? Pontiac tried a more or less similiar car...the GTO.....and it languished in the marketplace, even with updates in the second and third production years. The GNX Buick would also receive stiff competition from the Dodge Charger and Magnum R/T's and SRT's..

 

That makes sense, but I just thought that the primary reason for these surveys was to help potential buyers be aware of which cars are the most/least reliable. It seems unnecessary to include Oldsmobile at this point, but I guess they're just trying to be thorough.

 

I agree that CR seems to be the more accurate of the two. Still, if it's based on 3 years of ownership, I would have thought Hyundai's reliability would have been a bit higher by now. Considering MB has gone up tremendously in this particular survey, and it is based on vehicles up to 3 years old, I just would have thought Hyundai, which has been praised lately to have such improved reliability, would have been higher. Certainly higher than MB, considering where they have fallen on the charts for the past several years.

 

Its tiring seeing the same names at the bottom. Shame on Audi, Benz and BMW are doing so much better.

How does Honda score better than Acura?

Jeep, not bad, its pretty much average. I can deal with that.