marshmallo

Fuga, Shmuga, this is a cowardly, gutless design

GFerg

At least from my point of view, the M35 and Maxima share way to many similarities. Nissan like other companies like to have a certain family resemblance. The M35 is a Nissan (Fuga) so it will share certain characteristics. Nothing really wrong with that (for some people), but its a given. Like others said, it is not a bad car (I respect it), but its also not great...at least to me.

Lastly, as a Maxima owner and lover, the current 6th gen Maxima is a clear rip off of the 1st and 2nd gen GS. No GS looks like a Maxima, its the other way around. No Maxima before the 6th gen ever had the styling characteristics of a GS (long hood, short deck, sloping roof line). ANd during the process they totally forgot about what the Nissan Maxima means to the enthusiast.

RX_330

I'm digging the M45x!!

I still love the interior of the M.

Hypnotik

A cowardly gutless design that took alot of the E, 5 and GS market share . Time and time again this car has outperformed the competition. (FACT) The GS is definitely no breakthrough design. I mean it did copy e-class headlights and current gen maxima. And for a car that is supposedly very successful, it sure doesnt have the sales numbers of bmw and mercedes. No headroom in the rear and small trunk probably and the so-so design contributed to that

TRDFantasy

Gas mileage in the 30s? For a high powered V8 RWD luxury sedan? You're kidding right? At this point, technology and physics make that impossible. Maybe in a few decades.

Again, the GS and 5 Series V8 models both have very good (class leading) fuel economy. The LS460 also has class leading fuel economy. The car weights over 4000lbs, and achieves better fuel economy to an M45, a lighter and less powerful car. Now that's advancement.

As for the LS600h, it weighs roughly 5000lbs (about the weight of a full size pickup) AND it has AWD. Plus, the LS600h is rated using 2008 EPA numbers that use a more stringest testing method. The LS460 is currently rated using 2007 EPA ratings, so the 2008 LS460 will see it's fuel economy ratings drop.

All real-world reviews so far show that the LS hybrid achieves noticeably better fuel economy than an LS460.

LetMeShowU

Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. I was referring to the 3.5L V6 in the GS450h - You know, the same engine that gets 30mpg in the Toyota Avalon. How can you say it's impossible for the same engine to get at least the same if not better mpg with a hybrid electric motor attached to it when it already achieves 30 mpg in a non-hybrid form?

I think that's what's so disappointing about this car. It's the same engine that gets 30mpg on the highway in the Avalon, yet gets fewer mpg in the GS which is a hybrid. Sorry, but I guess I just don't see the GS450h achieving mpg in the 30s as such an impossibility like you do.

1BlackM3

I like the design of the M better than the GS. The GS looks so much like the Avalon it's crazy. Lexus needs to get away from toyota as much as possible even the LS looks like a stretch Camry.
Infiniti has become a bigger threat to BMW than Lexus. I mean the entry level Lexus is a front wheel drive sedan. The IS is a Corolla with a kit on it with a large motor. Thats why it's a woman car.
With the M you're getting performance and luxury not just luxury like the GS.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

I like it...sure there is a family resemeblance. Though with many current cars, there are enough styling ques that are variations on other manufacturers.


For the enthusiast certainly whatever they want... they motivate the companies to give me more car for the $$ spent. A strong engine is nice and makes for additional sales motivation. For me, I'm less particular if the car does the 1/4 in 14.5 or 15. LA/OC isn't conductive to Autobahn level driving so anytime I can get the car up to 70, it is a gift here. I do like MPG since we'll take modest 200-400 miles drives. Certainly in town I don't want to experience 14 MPG.

As they say...if they build it and good enough, I'll be inclined to consider or buy it. So far Lexus has done what I like and my other contender is Infinity.

TRDFantasy

In your post you were talking about V8 engines as well as the GS hybrid.

Also, FYI the 2008 Avalon gets 19/28 EPA mpg.
http://www.toyota.com/avalon/specs.html

The 2008 GS450h gets 25/28 EPA mpg. Compared to the Avalon, the GS is quite a bit heavier, offers more HP and torque, offers way better overall performance compared to the Avalon. and much better emissions. Apples to apples, based on 2008 EPA ratings the GS hybrid beats the Avalon in the city by 6mpg, and ties it on hwy mpg. Such an accomplishment can only be considered an advancement.

You must understand all cars will see their EPA ratings drop for 2008 because of the new, more stringest testing system. The LS hybrid and GS hybrid will look a lot more efficient in the eyes of critics once they see the EPA ratings for all other 2008 vehicles.

Are you sure you didn't confuse the GS with the M?








That M sure looks awfully similar to the 1st gen Avalon.

LetMeShowU

25/28 is decent gas mileage, but not good enough to be called a hybrid, IMO. Unlike all other hybrids, the mpg of the GS450h does not justify the additional expense over the base model (GS350). Everyone knows the Camry hybrid costs more than the SE, but after several years of ownership, the additional mpg should balance out the difference in initial cost. That is the point I am trying to make here.

Yes, the 450h is powerful and performs well, but it's still a hybrid. I don't think 25/28 is that great of an advancement, especially when compared to the cheaper, almost as powerful and almost as fuel efficient GS350.

LexFather

Dude, they cannot MAKE a hybrid. No one else can make a RWD, AWD V-8 or V-6 hyrbid but Lexus I dont' care if it makes 10 MPG, its a hybrid. You keep forgetting it makes MORE power and is faster than the M45.

You cannot talk about the "cost" of ownership as that is VARIABLE. A hybrid makes more sense from a MPG standpoint if you DRIVE MORE. To others, they like the "Greener" image and the emissions are much cleaner than a gas engine. Until Nissan can stop buying Toyota tech and make their own, you really should not harp on the GS 450h.

Both cars are sensational, GS and M. As well as the E and 5. Even the RL, S80 (Volvo), STS, etc are all superb. Guess what they all look like something. So lets us all (including me) stop debating that subjective point.

This class has never been better.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Seems Infiniti threads generate more passion than anything outside the debate forum.

I still don't care for the center stack on the M and they need at least a 6 speed auto. Apart from that though, it's a great car.

TRDFantasy

That's your opinion. With all things considered, there is NO car in the world that provides the combination of performance, refinement, super low emissions, and fuel economy. A diesel E Class or 5 Series doesn't cut it because they have less refinement due to diesel powertrains and significantly more emissions than the GS hybrid.

Considering this is the 1st RWD hybrid Toyota has *ever* done (LS hybrid being the 2nd) I'd say it's a pretty damn good achievement. You can't expect amazing advancement from the 1st generation.

RX_330

How does being a diesel automatically make the E and 5 less refined? We're not in the '80s or '90s anymore.

TRDFantasy

A diesel 5 or E compared to a GS hybrid? Well, the GS engine first off is detuned for further refinement and fuel efficiency at the cost of less power. Then the hybrid system is added and that includes an eCVT. So you have a very smooth and very refined gas engine tuned for refinement and fuel economy as well as a CVT where you feel no gear shifts. Also, you sometimes will run on electric power completely and the car will be totally silent. A diesel can't beat that, nor can a gas engine. A GS hybrid is more refined not just than it's diesel competition, but against any gas-engined competition.

Modern diesels are close to gas engines in refinement, but neither can beat the refinement of a gas-hybrid system.

Compared to any of it's competition, the GS hybrid's refinement is at a point where often you can't tell what speed the car is travelling at without looking at the meter.