mmarshall

Have to disagree on the Corvair, Lil. it was not just bad PR. The early models, especially, were a classic POS. They had a list of engineering goofs and dangerous characteristics longer than my right arm.....a separate, gasoline-burning cabin heater, swing-axle rear suspension and heavy rear-weight bias that produced oversteer and wheel-tuck-under snap rollovers, a steering column design that, in an even comparatively mild front-end crash, buckled and sent the hard plastic steering wheel upward right into the driver's head and chest, and oil seals that constantly failed and covered the whole inside of the engine compartment with oil gook, sometimes leading to fires. In addition, like some early VW Beetles, the light front end and rear-weight bias made it dance all over the road in crosswinds....increasing the chance of head-on collisions on narrow roads.

I didn't agree with everything Ralph Nader wrote in his book "Unsafe at any Speed" (overall, I agreed with about 50% of the book), but in the first chapter on the 1961-1963 Corvair, he was right on the money....it was indeed a classic, poorly engineered, piece of junk.

But I would agree with you that the Edsels were not necessarily bad cars.....they were just restyled late 50's Mercurys with unusual grille designs. But what turned people off on some Edsel models were the transmission push-buttons in the center of the steering wheel.....the Chrysler tranny push-buttons which were shortly to follow were on the dash, where they didn't spin around with the wheel and were always in easy reach.

Tekknikal

the consulier is actually a good car, if you're into driving.
but if you're into impressing others... not so much. although, it attracts TONS of attention.

Bean

iTrader: (1)

Is that the TPI or the Catch-fire... *cough* Crossfire Injection?

Bean

iTrader: (1)

You forgot price of a loaded Vette in there too. I remember the markup on those things. My dad took me to see one once when I was a kid at the local stealership. They were charging ~$65000 for their purple one on the floor.

I also fondly remember them because some guy tried to race me once back when I had my 300zxTT (my car had all the boltons short of turbo upgrades).

MrG4Life

iTrader: (14)

Uglyness. That's why vehicles such as the Aztec and 7-series are up there.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

the last Gen 7 Series looks pretty good...

trukn1

Oh my godness,, they stuck the YUGO GV up on that list (and for good reasoning) and totally missed that off brand, little French thing... The Renault LeCar. Sadness.... Found this lil gem on ebay. People are trying to sell this thing for like $3500. You be the judge....

mmarshall

My brother bought a new 1979 LeCar (techically known as the Renault 5) and loved it...........even though the paint finish was a joke, the hardware was junk, the shifter felt like chewing gum, the controls and levers were the ultimate in quirkiness, and the driver's seat support literally fell apart after a year....he propped the back cushion up with a wooden board. (warranties were only one year in those days).

It also had more body roll from the narrowness and high center of gravity, in the ultra-soft French tradition, than probably any other car I have ever driven....though the Kia Amanti comes close.

There was a turbo, bulged-fender, Alpine version of this car that was actually pretty good on the track.

geko29

People who have been trapped in their cars when the iDrive malfunctioned and didn't allow the doors to be unlocked or windows to be opened would disagree with you. So would the ones who got drenched when they were unable to close the windows/sunroof when it began to rain.

And the ones who were stranded when the car refused to start because the computer forgot how to cycle the starter motor.

I am a HUGE BMW fan, but I would NEVER consider one of the early E65/E66 745i/Ls.

Lil4X

A friend and I campaigned his R-4 (progenitor of the R-5) through a couple of seasons on the Southwest SCCA rally circuit. I have to confess surprise in that the little beast was a match for the stringback-glove, MG, TR, and Mini set with whom we were classed. It was a little slow, but once you learned to recalibrate your inner ears, it was quick in the corners. We never won, but were seldom embarrassed, and never scored a DNF. It was surprisingly reliable, if unglamorous.

The Renault redefined your whole concept of body roll. The ultra-soft suspension was supremely comfortable, and surprisingly it managed to keep all four wheels pointed in the same direction - even while heeling on her beam ends. You learned to live in what felt like a permanent state of incipient rollover. Any other vehicle would have killed you for such brazen control inputs, but the little R-4 simply knelt further into its unlimited range of suspension deflection and although it did so with the inside rear wheel often well clear of the roadway, it stuck to the corner like lint on a blue blazer. At the end of the day you expected to get out and find major damage to doors and rocker panels, but although the horizon often assumed crazy angles through the windshield, and the view out the side window was often either brown or blue, depending on your relationship to the apex, you learned to suppress the scream that might frighten le pilote.

That dog-at-a-fire-hydrant cornering stance notwithstanding, it made for a surprisingly quick vehicle when making up time thanks to the navigator's (my) errors. The interior was plush - at least compared to its contemporaries, with soft leather seats and a reasonable amount of room - thanks to the tall cabin and upright seating. It was typically French (read, weird) in all aspects. Its red paint routinely turned to chalk every ninety days, becoming an odd tomato soup color. It went through several dealer-applied re-applications of paint until someone suggested the paint itself might be faulty (again, French), and a final coat of Ford red was applied - ending the paint problems permanently.

At the end of our second (full) season, the Renault went back to Jim's wife - who never knew what we had been doing with her grocery-getter on the odd weekend for the past two autumn seasons. It went on for a couple of years until their growing family needed more room for booster seats and a larger vehicle with actual cargo space was required for playpens and strollers. It seems road rallying wasn't Jim's only hobby.

trukn1

Wow,, never knew I could spark up sooo many memories with the LeCar. LOL!!! Hmm for s*&t's and giggles,, let's talk about the Citroen. Any Takers?

Lil4X

For an interesting tour of Jay Leno's Citroen SM, check this out:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/...l?vidID=125002

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Jeremy Clarkson reviewed the new C6 on Top Gear and was very impressed. Still the stunning ride that can soak up any bumps. Great looking car too.

mmarshall

Let's see if Chevy gets hot and bothered about Citroen using the C6 Corvette designation....you know how auto companies can be about things like this. Maybe the fact that the company is French, and doesn't do buisness in the American market, shields it from U.S. copyright laws.