I was quoted about 560 per month on an '07 IS350 last Dec '06 when I was shopping for my IS250. At the last minute I went with the 250 because the first number in my payment is a 4.

You have just answered your own question here:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=306406

You are well aware the Summer Sale is over (rates went up/residuals dropped) and 350's are extremely rare right now. When leasing/buying any car ALL factors must be taken into consideration - including market fluctuations.

I usually get paid for my services, if you want to find a good deal in Memphis I suggest you go hire yourself a local broker to help you.
Either that or wait for this year's "December to Remember" sales event.

 

There's no way you were quoted that on a fully loaded IS350 for 24 months with zero down. I've watched the Lexus residual rates year-round - I've never seen them over 62% for 15k miles and 24 months

I'm guessing this was with a down payment, or for 36 months, or for a IS350 with a sticker under 40k


Actually the rates I quoted were for August, when the summer sales event was going on. Are you saying this this month's rates are even worse?

 

Lexus does charge too much for what you get. Lexus is asking too much for a stock IS350/250 leases imo. Add some options to the mix and ohh baby..

 

It was with navigation and for 36 months without any down payment. I did do a msd lease but I can't remember if that quote was with it or without because I had 4 different quotes and it was so long ago. In any case, I didn't do a maximinum MSD lease - only like 4 msd's or something so the 560 payment is fairly accurate. Unfortunately no one can get that kind of good deal on 350's now as they are too rare, '08, and a brand new lease program. I would never ever do a 24 month Lexus lease, those have always sucked.

I think it also helps that I used to work on the "inside" and I can talk the dealer's language to negotiate the best deal at the right time. I waited for a year for the right deal to come along and thankfully I had the luxury of waiting because I wasn't in a hurry.

As you already know from your own thread, the Summer Sales event always ends on Labor Day. But luckily for you, December to Remember starts up right after Thanksgiving.

 

I completely agree.

With that said, I should have leased my IS350 instead of paying cash. I can't stand driving a car for more than 2 years or 30K miles. I promised myself that I would keep this IS350 until it hits 50K miles but now I am seriously itching for a new car.

 

definitely not the case. depends on what kind of lease you get, it can be better than finance if you buy out the car in the end

 

Let me say this is a great discussion.

I guess bottom line, Lexus is the #1 selling luxury brand and BMW is #2. So clearly, even with different selling strategies, it works for both companies.

Also, looking at both companies pre-owned (certified) sales, they are up and up as well.

Again, my point was not to really judge a person's choice on what or how they buy their car. My observation is BMW needs to maybe lower their MSRP instead of offering class leading incentives and they may need to scale back their lease offers as it is questionable for a luxury brand.

 

It would be interesting to know, by model, the percentage of people who lease, finance or lease a new BMW, Mercedes and Lexus. I suspect that a larger percentage of buyers who lease or finance are buying the less expensive models of each make.

Before 1990, in my BL (before Lexus) days, I spent a lot of time at the Mercedes dealership getting the damned things fixed.

When I got bored with the waiting room, I sometimes wandered around the showroom floor looking at cars and talking with with my favorite Mercedes salesman.

Perhaps the most memorable conversation with this salesman was when he told me that he never got used to seeing most Mercedes S-class buyers getting out their checkbooks and paying him in full for their new cars.

But maybe things have changed.

 

That is only true in America.

 

And yet you continue to twist around and misinterpret posts?

NOBODY here said leasing is "bad financial sense"; nobody but you.

Again, BMW is NOT losing money on these vehicles, and Benz is NOT losing money on these vehicles. Their overall company profit margins are DROPPING, despite increased worldwide sales so obviously these awesome leases that you're getting have something to do with it. If you don't know what profit margins are then you shouldn't be discussing this point.

And quite honestly, if you're interested in "bang for the buck" WHY are you even looking at luxury cars? Luxury cars aren't about "bang for the buck". If Benz and BMW weren't offering these great lease deals, then what would you consider as "bang for the buck" in the luxury market?

If you want "bang for the buck", why didn't you look at Honda, Toyota, GM, or any other cheaper, mainstream brand?

The best bang-for-the-buck you can get is arguably from GM, Ford, or Chrysler right now, not BMW or Benz.

I have no idea where you got that from, but you're wrong.

Even if I show you links, will that change your mind or stop your persistent posts that Lexus leases are a "rip off"? Probably not.

The links are all out there about the dropping profit margins that BMW in particular has seen. The links are out there with regards to BMW Germany being concerned about the lease rates that BMW USA is offering. The links are all out there that shows Lexus *dealer service* is better than BMW or Benz. And it's quite obvious Lexus builds a more reliable and better quality car than BMW or Benz. There is also enough evidence out there that shows quite a few "posers" (or people who can't afford the price of the car) lease BMW or Benz, which is a far higher number than the amount of "posers" who lease Lexus models.

All you have to do is look for the proof and the links, the info is all readily available.

Also, if you don't know the difference between 'profits' and 'profit margins' then honestly you shouldn't be taking part in this topic of discussion.

Yet again you missed the point .

YES, German brands DO offer better lease rates (in North America) than Lexus. We are NOT arguing that point.

The discussion and argument is about the OP's point that Lexus leases are a "rip off". Has it ever occured that the glass is half empty instead of being half full?

PsychDoc, maybe it's NOT that Lexus leases are a "rip off" but that BMW and Benz leases are a steal and that any leases with higher rates are automatically considered a "rip off".

 

We are only talking about America, regarding lease rates here, apples to apples. Europe & the rest of the world are irrelevant to this discussion since the model line offerings are very different there . . . totally different markets.

 

Ah, so now we're going to talk about profits vs. profit margins. As most people are aware, profits (generic sense) come in two flavors. For the sake of ease, we'll call them "quick nickels" and "slow dollars." At the end of the day it hardly matters which road you take as profits are simply a company's net income after all expenses are paid. If a company wants to move 1000's of units at a profit of only 5% on each, that's fine. Similarly, if another company wants to set it's profit margin per unit at 100% and move far less units, that's also fine. The free market has a lovely way of crushing company B in the long run as eventually people get wise to the fact that company A has the same (or better) product at a fraction of the price.

So let's not obfuscate matters by splitting hairs between overall profit and "profit margin." At the end of the day it's all about earnings which are profits after expenses. How you choose to get there is not terribly important.

Of course, the far more germaine issue here is that we're all consumers and not owners of the respective companies in question. So from my point of view, as a consumer of goods and services (or in this case, cars), I couldn't give a rat's a** about the company's profitability (unless it affects their solvency which, in turn, might affect my ability to get service in the future if it ever becomes insolvent). All I care about is what I'm getting for my dollar.

And here, after all the hand wringing is over with, the following truths continue to be evident:

-If you want to purchase a luxury car, look no further that Lexus. A fabulous car at an excellent price.

-If you want to lease, look to the Germans (remember here, we're talking about the luxury niche and even luxury buyers don't appreciate being ripped off relative to what other, equally [or better] presigious marques are charging). By that metric, Lexus is "ripping off" the leasing public.

If it makes you Lexus fan boys any happier, I'll be happy to state the corollary regarding outright purchases: BMW and M-B are ripping off the buying public.

 

Yes and if you look at my prior posts, you will see I also notated worldwide sales, Lexus is 4th.

 

Just because someone makes less than someone else and they lease an S class because the lease was way cheaper than an LS doesn't make them a poser, etc. I know you didn't say that specifically, but it was said by others and makes no sense.

People buy or lease what they want and can afford. Unless a car is being repossessed then they can afford it. Might be reckless financial mismanagement to someone else looking at it but it's their life and potential problems down the road.

All these sidebars in here about 'prestige', BMW's shareholders being worried, how these discounts and incentives can't be good in the long run, and so on don't change the fact that BMWs and MBs ARE cheaper to lease than comparable Lexus. Again it's down to priorities and business strategies that determine this.

 

Sorry Henry, I'm obviously missing something, but why were you glad? Did you buy the car out of the lease? Or are you happy that you'll make the SC not sure an expensive used car for the next person?

What is MSD?