Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
12-01-11, 10:57 AM
#1742
LED DRLs, fogs, larger exhaust, etc may be optional accessories.
Things like a nicer interior aren't going to happen in the FR-S. The only thing they'll probably change is stuff easily swapped out (nav, materials) but not something like having the dual climate added. It's plausible they'll make a release series with it. Two release series tCs to this date have changed interior options like standard nav or standard push button ignition and quite a number have changed interior materials (I actually own one of those with Alcantara interior).
12-01-11, 11:44 AM
#1745
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Don't really agree that the FR-S should just be a bottom-end stripper model.
At face value, I think they have done a fine job of making the FRS into a (very) bare-bones RWD coupe that will be fun to drive. I think plenty of people will take to the car and probably buy it, be it enthusiasts or the average Joe/Jane. However, there will be a group of people, such as myself, who like the car a lot but want the premium features like LED headlights, auto climate control, nicer head unit, and heated seats. I'm ok with a few extra pounds if it will make me more comfortable, or make the car better to look at. Looking at the comments in this thread and considering the types of cars that most American’s buy, I think there is a sizable chunk of people who feel the same way. For these people, I'd personally like to see Scion release a higher spec model that has these features, not unlike how there have been different specs of tC in the past.
(Devil’s advocate: since most of the buyers won’t be enthusiasts, they probably won’t have any idea of what the GT86/86 offers that the FR-S doesn’t, so it’s not like they will be whining.)
The logical thing here is "go get the Subaru" but I don't think it's quite that easy. For 1, I hate the silver plastic going across the dash. It looks cheap as hell in all 3 cars, but the black/silver contrast in the Subaru is absolutely horrible. I also....just don't really want to buy a Subaru. For a lot of people in the U.S., Subaru is still a niche brand. Yes, they are getting bigger and more prominent, but they don't have the mass appeal of Scion/Toyota (then again, this isn't exactly a car for the masses, so take that for what it's worth).
My whole point here is that by offering a higher spec model, Scion could really broaden the appeal of the car. With a higher spec package, the FR-S could appeal to a different demographic and become the poor man’s Cayman but as it is now, I think the interior is just too cheap for that. It seems like Toyota/Subaru might have agreed to this arrangement, but if so, I think that was a mistake on Toyota's part.
After 14 years without a sports car, it's looking like Toyota fans will have one sportscar that's far too expensive and rare (LFA) to be realistic, and another that's going to be so cheap that nobody outside of 20-something males will want it (FR-S). Awesome
At face value, I think they have done a fine job of making the FRS into a (very) bare-bones RWD coupe that will be fun to drive. I think plenty of people will take to the car and probably buy it, be it enthusiasts or the average Joe/Jane. However, there will be a group of people, such as myself, who like the car a lot but want the premium features like LED headlights, auto climate control, nicer head unit, and heated seats. I'm ok with a few extra pounds if it will make me more comfortable, or make the car better to look at. Looking at the comments in this thread and considering the types of cars that most American’s buy, I think there is a sizable chunk of people who feel the same way. For these people, I'd personally like to see Scion release a higher spec model that has these features, not unlike how there have been different specs of tC in the past.
(Devil’s advocate: since most of the buyers won’t be enthusiasts, they probably won’t have any idea of what the GT86/86 offers that the FR-S doesn’t, so it’s not like they will be whining.)
The logical thing here is "go get the Subaru" but I don't think it's quite that easy. For 1, I hate the silver plastic going across the dash. It looks cheap as hell in all 3 cars, but the black/silver contrast in the Subaru is absolutely horrible. I also....just don't really want to buy a Subaru. For a lot of people in the U.S., Subaru is still a niche brand. Yes, they are getting bigger and more prominent, but they don't have the mass appeal of Scion/Toyota (then again, this isn't exactly a car for the masses, so take that for what it's worth).
My whole point here is that by offering a higher spec model, Scion could really broaden the appeal of the car. With a higher spec package, the FR-S could appeal to a different demographic and become the poor man’s Cayman but as it is now, I think the interior is just too cheap for that. It seems like Toyota/Subaru might have agreed to this arrangement, but if so, I think that was a mistake on Toyota's part.
After 14 years without a sports car, it's looking like Toyota fans will have one sportscar that's far too expensive and rare (LFA) to be realistic, and another that's going to be so cheap that nobody outside of 20-something males will want it (FR-S). Awesome
I also don't see where we have been without sports cars for 14 years... more like 5 since the Celica/MR2 were canned. I think this car is a VERY fitting revival... it goes to the core of what Sports cars are all about. It pretty much takes the LFA, sheds the technology, outlandishness, exclusivity and distills the joy and thrill of driving into an accessible package - both price and performance wise- for the common man.
I'm sure there is more to come too, but that will probably hinge on this particular car selling well, and IMHO, they have done what they needed to do to make that happen.
Last edited by MR_F1; 12-01-11 at 11:49 AM.
12-01-11, 11:53 AM
#1747
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Since a Lexus version will likely add a lot of weight with all the amenities, it might as well turn into a 2-seat roadster to compete with the likes of the Z4 and SLK.
12-01-11, 01:29 PM
#1748
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12-01-11, 01:51 PM
#1749
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Do it Lexus. Doooooooo iiiiiiiiiiitttttttt.
12-01-11, 02:03 PM
#1750
so there isnt anything smart for lexus version to add, it has same equipment as CTh, if not more.
And if there isnt an premium Scion version, there will be Subaru which looks like exactly the same car no matter what Subaru tries to convey in their PRs.
12-01-11, 02:11 PM
#1751
I've got to admit that the interior, from looks alone, doesn't impress me. It appears to have a number of the same cheap trim parts and *****/controls as other small Toyotas and Scions (some of which I recognize from prior-reviews). The new Scion tC's interior, IMO is especially disappointing, and some of those parts seem to have been transplanted here. Of course, It's been also pointed out (with at least some truth) that a lot of tC buyers generally care little for luxury-grade interiors, as they tend to customize a lot of theings to their own liking anyway. They will (likely) be the case with a lot of the potential customers of this car, too.
I think Scion head unit is good looking and it is actually good unit. It is probably a lot better than non-nav unit that will be sold in rest of the world, in Toyota versions. I mean not everyone will get nav, heck most likely most people wont pay extra for Toyota nav :-).
I know that in Europe, some distributors like Toyota GB has said that there will be only single spec - top spec, but I consider that as BAD. Because that means that the car will be very expensive. With all due respect to everyone, I am not sure I would pay extra $5k to get premium version over base one as this would be 2nd car in the family.
12-01-11, 02:13 PM
#1752
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I'm kind of glad they are introducing it as a stripped out model. It will keep the weight as well as the price down. If US spec for base model is at 2600lbs, that would be very nice! I can see shaving off at least another 100-150 lbs via cf hood and trunk, battery, racing seats, rpf1 wheels, and ti exhaust. It also gives me hope that they may make a racer model devoid of even creature comforts like AC and power windows like on the tC.
btw - are those running lights and/or blinkers where the fogs would be at?
btw - are those running lights and/or blinkers where the fogs would be at?
Last edited by ST430; 12-01-11 at 02:22 PM.
12-01-11, 02:30 PM
#1753
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Toyota version is already loaded... it has xenons, dual auto air, seat warmers, 7" nav system with entune, led drls, auto lights, auto wipers, auto dimmer, smart entry...... all versions also have fabric/leather on door trims and rest of interior as well (like Camry).
so there isnt anything smart for lexus version to add, it has same equipment as CTh, if not more.
And if there isnt an premium Scion version, there will be Subaru which looks like exactly the same car no matter what Subaru tries to convey in their PRs.
so there isnt anything smart for lexus version to add, it has same equipment as CTh, if not more.
And if there isnt an premium Scion version, there will be Subaru which looks like exactly the same car no matter what Subaru tries to convey in their PRs.
Still if I were Lexus I'd make it a roadster just to distance itself from the Toyota/Scion/Subaru versions. As a coupe the Lexus would once again scream "I'm a tarted-up Toyota", which is the last thing I want to see. (Are you listening Lexus?)
Last edited by ydooby; 12-01-11 at 03:12 PM.
12-01-11, 06:24 PM
#1754
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Well I expect the Lexus version to come with--on top of what the high-spec 86 already has--18" wheels, 9-speaker premium audio system with subwoofer, and a lot more sound-insulation. With all these it can easily approach 1,300kg, which happens to be the weight of the 120i coupe.
Still if I were Lexus I'd make it a roadster just to distance itself from the Toyota/Scion/Subaru versions. As a coupe the Lexus would once again scream "I'm a tarted-up Toyota", which is the last thing I want to see. (Are you listening Lexus?)
Still if I were Lexus I'd make it a roadster just to distance itself from the Toyota/Scion/Subaru versions. As a coupe the Lexus would once again scream "I'm a tarted-up Toyota", which is the last thing I want to see. (Are you listening Lexus?)
12-01-11, 06:32 PM
#1755
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The end result of a Lexus roadster, though much heavier than the 86, will still be lighter and drive better than the Z4 2.0i I reckon, while providing the premium car experience one expects from a premium brand.
Last edited by ydooby; 12-01-11 at 09:11 PM.