Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
02-01-12, 02:23 PM
#2012
However, the similarities in weight, rwd, engine size, and price (a loaded BRZ isn't that far off from the s2k when it was available) make the comparisons unavoidable.
02-01-12, 04:02 PM
#2015
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Like I have said many times in ft86club, 86 is a sportcar with back seat for insurance purpose. Definition of sport car in 1960s doesn't apply today world. Evo mag praised EPS in 86 is superior to the one in new 911. Cog of 86 is also lower than 911 and some Ferraris. How is this not a sport car? Because it has 200hp?
02-01-12, 04:30 PM
#2017
some interior features and HIDs, yes. Basically in US, they made it simple choice - if you want affordable, get Scion, and if you want loaded, get Subaru.
02-01-12, 05:55 PM
#2020
Like I have said many times in ft86club, 86 is a sportcar with back seat for insurance purpose. Definition of sport car in 1960s doesn't apply today world. Evo mag praised EPS in 86 is superior to the one in new 911. Cog of 86 is also lower than 911 and some Ferraris. How is this not a sport car? Because it has 200hp?
Calling it a "sports car" is just semantics. Call it what you want. It's performance, stock for stock, is still below any of the cars you've mentioned.
02-01-12, 06:32 PM
#2021
So you complain when the FT86 is compared to a s2000, then proceed to say it's superior to a 911 and make a comparison to Ferrari?
Calling it a "sports car" is just semantics. Call it what you want. It's performance, stock for stock, is still below any of the cars you've mentioned.
Calling it a "sports car" is just semantics. Call it what you want. It's performance, stock for stock, is still below any of the cars you've mentioned.
as to the S2000, what about it? Yes, later versions had 240 hp, but torque is very close and power is very, very peaky.
Not really sure how much faster S2000 will be at all... not a lot thats for sure.
and plus base S2000 was 35k, still 150-200lbs heavier despite 2 seats and old crash standards and less airbags.
for 15k extra you can make FT-86 run circles around S2000...
02-01-12, 06:44 PM
#2022
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So you complain when the FT86 is compared to a s2000, then proceed to say it's superior to a 911 and make a comparison to Ferrari?
Calling it a "sports car" is just semantics. Call it what you want. It's performance, stock for stock, is still below any of the cars you've mentioned.
Calling it a "sports car" is just semantics. Call it what you want. It's performance, stock for stock, is still below any of the cars you've mentioned.
You do realize some of the sportiest cars in history are not 500hp cars or big cars or fast cars. The MX-5 Miata more than any current car proves this. So does a base model Elise. A base Cayman is among the sportiest cars around. A Boxster which was praised all over the media when it debuted only had 201hp.
Toyota & Suburu purposely made this car for true enthusiasts more concerned with the feel of the car than outright speed, size, power. They explained how cars today are all heavier, bigger and have more power to compensate while being more isolated from the road.
There will be those that desire more power but that means a sports car with more power. The base 200hp car is 100% a sports car.
02-01-12, 08:26 PM
#2023
He did not say that. EVERY EXPERT SAID IT. It is 100% a sports car. Reviews have been above glowing for the car. Toyota even stated the S2000 was seen as a car they admired, so quit the damn beef. EVO, maybe the toughest critic on cars explained how they felt it is one of the most special sports cars made today/ever. What is your issue?
You do realize some of the sportiest cars in history are not 500hp cars or big cars or fast cars. The MX-5 Miata more than any current car proves this. So does a base model Elise. A base Cayman is among the sportiest cars around. A Boxster which was praised all over the media when it debuted only had 201hp.
Toyota & Suburu purposely made this car for true enthusiasts more concerned with the feel of the car than outright speed, size, power. They explained how cars today are all heavier, bigger and have more power to compensate while being more isolated from the road.
There will be those that desire more power but that means a sports car with more power. The base 200hp car is 100% a sports car.
You do realize some of the sportiest cars in history are not 500hp cars or big cars or fast cars. The MX-5 Miata more than any current car proves this. So does a base model Elise. A base Cayman is among the sportiest cars around. A Boxster which was praised all over the media when it debuted only had 201hp.
Toyota & Suburu purposely made this car for true enthusiasts more concerned with the feel of the car than outright speed, size, power. They explained how cars today are all heavier, bigger and have more power to compensate while being more isolated from the road.
There will be those that desire more power but that means a sports car with more power. The base 200hp car is 100% a sports car.
And who exactly are you arguing with about HP? If you read what i wrote i consider the s2000 a sports car, and it only has 240hp.
People need to relax lol.
02-01-12, 08:27 PM
#2024
Lexus Fanatic
BTW, because of the Scion version (a Toyota division) that is is coming to the U.S. market, the Toyota reps at the show said that they would not offer the Toyota-badged version here.
02-01-12, 11:01 PM
#2025
Lexus Connoisseur
Yeah its much nicer. This is basically the GT Premium package for the 86 in Japan.
You're welcome. Scion is all about mono-spec pure pricing. I really hope they offer the upgrades but it would be a shame if they lost the high end sales to Subaru.
No prob! Tada-san came because of TMC. He was never around Subaru. From what I was told, he flew direct to Detroit from Japan to make it just in time for the press conference. Then he left Detroit that same day to be in LA that same evening. Talk about a quick trip to the US.
You're not alone and I agree with you. I really think the 86 should have stayed a Toyota here in the states for one main reason...heritage. It's kind of confusing to explain heritage with a Scion FR-S as it really has no history other than being related to a car that is a Toyota in the homeland. My biggest gripe is that you have the 86 badge on the fenders of the FR-S, but all the references to Toyota Corolla AE86 and etc make no sense. Toyota still has the Corolla but it didn't get the cool car it should have. Now Corolla with its long standing history is left behind to rot.
Yeah the good thing about being a Scion is that upgrading and personalizing the car is encouraged. However it sucks that the BRZ gets all the bells and whistles and the Scion gets the bare minimum.
No its not. Scion tC is more in line with the Civic Si in terms of comparison. Its the same reason Civic Si is not compared to S2K.
looks like scion is aimed at a price point so doesn't have some things the subie has.Same here. Thanks for the comparison pics, Ryan!
While I understand Toyota/Subaru's positioning of these two cars, I really dislike it. Toyota has a fan base of curent/ex Supra, Celica, MR2, and SC owners who have been starving for a new sports car for several years. Now, the finally deliver but with limited appeal and short options list. This might not be so bad if the BRZ wasn't an exactly identical car with much nicer options and equipment. A sizable chunk of those Toyota people are left with option-envy, myself included.
I'm not going to rehash the same old arguments about price vs. options vs. weight vs. pure driver's car, but I continue to think the positioning is wrong on this car.
While I understand Toyota/Subaru's positioning of these two cars, I really dislike it. Toyota has a fan base of curent/ex Supra, Celica, MR2, and SC owners who have been starving for a new sports car for several years. Now, the finally deliver but with limited appeal and short options list. This might not be so bad if the BRZ wasn't an exactly identical car with much nicer options and equipment. A sizable chunk of those Toyota people are left with option-envy, myself included.
I'm not going to rehash the same old arguments about price vs. options vs. weight vs. pure driver's car, but I continue to think the positioning is wrong on this car.
True.
The Scion is bare bones. It would be modification worthy to tuners and such. It would appeal to a younger crowd that want an inexpensive sports car. Otherwise, a lot needs to be changed.
The Subie has more amenities to address the non-mod crowd. Subaru owners are generally older (read more mature) than Scion owners, with more income.
The Scion is bare bones. It would be modification worthy to tuners and such. It would appeal to a younger crowd that want an inexpensive sports car. Otherwise, a lot needs to be changed.
The Subie has more amenities to address the non-mod crowd. Subaru owners are generally older (read more mature) than Scion owners, with more income.
Are these two cars suppose to compete with cars like the Honda Civic SI? I love the cars but I wish they had 250hp. The S2000 had 240hp I believe, wish it got numbers close to that. Love the styling of the cars but wish it could compete and beat the S2000 with power and handling. I'm sure it handles well, just to have see how it does compared to the s2k.
I'm betting Subaru BRZ & Scion FR-S will have a sport turbo version in a few years.
Also, I would pick the BRZ over the Scion. I rather drive a Subaru over the Scion.
I'm betting Subaru BRZ & Scion FR-S will have a sport turbo version in a few years.
Also, I would pick the BRZ over the Scion. I rather drive a Subaru over the Scion.