Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
06-11-12, 02:32 AM
#2341
Wait, you're trying to argue the efficiency and power output of NA vs. FI now based on compression ratios and older VW/Audi tech?! WTF?! 
Huyndai Velositer: 1.6L / 200hp / regular fuel / 27 city / 38 hwy
Huyndai Genesis: 2.0L / 274hp / regular fuel / 21 city / 30 hwy
BMW 328i: 2.0L / 240hp / premium fuel / 21 city / 31 hwy
The newer gen GDI turbos are quite impressive and return great power per liter. Your driving style will vary the mpg greatly. Even my MR2 rated at 26/33, I can barely get 25mpg if I'm lucky due to my heavy left foot!
Huyndai Velositer: 1.6L / 200hp / regular fuel / 27 city / 38 hwy
Huyndai Genesis: 2.0L / 274hp / regular fuel / 21 city / 30 hwy
BMW 328i: 2.0L / 240hp / premium fuel / 21 city / 31 hwy
The newer gen GDI turbos are quite impressive and return great power per liter. Your driving style will vary the mpg greatly. Even my MR2 rated at 26/33, I can barely get 25mpg if I'm lucky due to my heavy left foot!
now you got me to look at Genesis 2.0T number... LOL.
16.6 mpg
now isnt that funny?
MPG EPA
GTI: 24/33
86: 22/30
Genesis 2.0T: 21/30
MPG M/T
GTI: 20 MPG
86: 24-26
Genesis 2.0T: 16
06-11-12, 09:00 AM
#2344
Pole Position
what i am comparing is real life figures based on comparo test and not lab results that you are quoting. So real numbers and not cooked ones.
now you got me to look at Genesis 2.0T number... LOL.
16.6 mpg
now isnt that funny?
MPG EPA
GTI: 24/33
86: 22/30
Genesis 2.0T: 21/30
MPG M/T
GTI: 20 MPG
86: 24-26
Genesis 2.0T: 16
now you got me to look at Genesis 2.0T number... LOL.
16.6 mpg
now isnt that funny?
MPG EPA
GTI: 24/33
86: 22/30
Genesis 2.0T: 21/30
MPG M/T
GTI: 20 MPG
86: 24-26
Genesis 2.0T: 16
In fact, I had a chat with a FR-S owner over the weekend and he's reporting only real-world mileage of "~20mpg at most", but then again he's a professed racer and leadfoot. As they always state, YMMV.Speaking of which, I had a chance to look more closely at the FR-S after a Toyco regional rep contacted me. Several things stood out in my static look at it (the i observed was in PDI presold for a customer so i wasn't allowed to drive it):
- Very cheap interior. I wasn't impressed at all with the faux carbon fibre treatment on the dash. And what's up with the button "handles" on the seat shoulder?!
- Rear seat is a joke. At my regular seating position, There is no way anyone, not even a small child, can sit int he rear.
- Subaru name/logos abound in the engine compartment including the oil filter, engine shroud, etc.
- Nice lightweight aluminum hood used in front. There's also ample opportunity to do additonal weight savings including the atrocious stock wheels, the huge battery.
All in all, impressive package, but doesn't seem to suit me (maybe the BRZ would be better). Then again, I said the same thing about the S2000 to only pick it up a year later after its debut. Also, a couple of things I also noted the rep told me:
- Only 800 allocation for US this year?! I'm very surprised at this, but that's the impression he's getting from corporate.
- Non competitive agreement with Subaru barring both companies from offering a souped up version without the having the other a simliar offering.
- Scion does not allow markups on stock preordered units. However, if they add accessories, all bets are off.
06-11-12, 09:19 AM
#2345
Lexus Champion
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06-11-12, 09:29 AM
#2346
from post #121 in the ***Official Recall Thread***
The Scion FR-S/Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ triplets are being recalled due to an issue not with the car, but with the owner's manual: pages detailing the operation of the smart airbags contain a misprint. Although it's classified as a recall, owners don't need to take their cars to their dealers; Scion and Subaru will be sending the nearly 2,800 owners corrected pages that can be inserted in the manual. If you'd rather have your dealer do the Elmer's Glue work, they will have corrected pages that they can insesrt in the owner's manual for you.
Two separate issues seem to be affecting the FR-S only, even though it is built on the same line with the BRZ. Toyota issued "tech tips" to dealers to let them know that owners have reported that condensation has been forming inside the taillamp housings. According to an exchange on the FT86Club forum, the coupe's chief engineer declared that problem fixed after remedying a detail in the production process.
Another tech tip regarding body panel issues read, "Some 2013 Scion FR-S vehicles may exhibit a condition where body panel fitting may not meet customer expectations." It refers to complaints that panels were as much as a quarter-inch out of flush. It isn't clear how many cars are affected, nor how many owners have formally complainted, but according to a post on TundraHeadquarters.com, Toyota is "looking into it."
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/11/s...manual-recall/
Scion FR-S faces teething problems, owner's manual recall
The Scion FR-S/Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ triplets are being recalled due to an issue not with the car, but with the owner's manual: pages detailing the operation of the smart airbags contain a misprint. Although it's classified as a recall, owners don't need to take their cars to their dealers; Scion and Subaru will be sending the nearly 2,800 owners corrected pages that can be inserted in the manual. If you'd rather have your dealer do the Elmer's Glue work, they will have corrected pages that they can insesrt in the owner's manual for you.
Two separate issues seem to be affecting the FR-S only, even though it is built on the same line with the BRZ. Toyota issued "tech tips" to dealers to let them know that owners have reported that condensation has been forming inside the taillamp housings. According to an exchange on the FT86Club forum, the coupe's chief engineer declared that problem fixed after remedying a detail in the production process.
Another tech tip regarding body panel issues read, "Some 2013 Scion FR-S vehicles may exhibit a condition where body panel fitting may not meet customer expectations." It refers to complaints that panels were as much as a quarter-inch out of flush. It isn't clear how many cars are affected, nor how many owners have formally complainted, but according to a post on TundraHeadquarters.com, Toyota is "looking into it."
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/11/s...manual-recall/
06-11-12, 09:38 AM
#2347
What part of "Your driving style will vary the mpg greatly" didn't you understand? In fact, I had a chat with a FR-S owner over the weekend and he's reporting only real-world mileage of "~20mpg at most", but then again he's a professed racer and leadfoot. As they always state, YMMV.
In fact, I had a chat with a FR-S owner over the weekend and he's reporting only real-world mileage of "~20mpg at most", but then again he's a professed racer and leadfoot. As they always state, YMMV.
Speaking of which, I had a chance to look more closely at the FR-S after a Toyco regional rep contacted me. Several things stood out in my static look at it (the i observed was in PDI presold for a customer so i wasn't allowed to drive it):
- Very cheap interior. I wasn't impressed at all with the faux carbon fibre treatment on the dash. And what's up with the button "handles" on the seat shoulder?!
- Very cheap interior. I wasn't impressed at all with the faux carbon fibre treatment on the dash. And what's up with the button "handles" on the seat shoulder?!
- Rear seat is a joke. At my regular seating position, There is no way anyone, not even a small child, can sit int he rear.
- Subaru name/logos abound in the engine compartment including the oil filter, engine shroud, etc.
- Nice lightweight aluminum hood used in front. There's also ample opportunity to do additonal weight savings including the atrocious stock wheels, the huge battery.
All in all, impressive package, but doesn't seem to suit me (maybe the BRZ would be better). Then again, I said the same thing about the S2000 to only pick it up a year later after its debut.
- Subaru name/logos abound in the engine compartment including the oil filter, engine shroud, etc.
- Nice lightweight aluminum hood used in front. There's also ample opportunity to do additonal weight savings including the atrocious stock wheels, the huge battery.
All in all, impressive package, but doesn't seem to suit me (maybe the BRZ would be better). Then again, I said the same thing about the S2000 to only pick it up a year later after its debut.
06-11-12, 09:49 AM
#2348
I have been following the FT86 triplets closely since they popped up on the radar in ~07 and may consider purchasing one at some point. With this being a totally new breed of car for both companies, I expect Toyota and Subaru to make ongoing year-over-year improvements, similar to how Lexus has handled the ISF. My theory is that towards the end of its life cycle, or at least after the refresh, the car will be pretty close to perfect.
Example:
From FT86club -
They did a great job with these cars, but if I'm to buy one, I'd like to keep it for several years so for me, it's worth waiting.
Example:
From FT86club -
Thursday June 7, 2012 15:30
2014 Subaru BRZ – Minor and Major Mechanical Changes
Posted by admin
Site moderator WingsofWar brings us information on some minor and major mechanical changes for the 2014 Subaru BRZ, particularly to the FA201.
Some have been concerned about the mid range dip found on the BRZ’s torqeband, spawning many different theories with no real conclusive explanation. Intake acoustics have been found to have the greatest effect on this. Subaru’s solution for next year is to adopt TGV (tumble generator valve federated) into next years model lineup.
Other changes may include watercooled EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) with a collector, Hitachi DI injection drivers ECU and Hitachi injectors with a dual spray pattern.
2014 Subaru BRZ – Minor and Major Mechanical Changes
Posted by admin
Site moderator WingsofWar brings us information on some minor and major mechanical changes for the 2014 Subaru BRZ, particularly to the FA201.
Some have been concerned about the mid range dip found on the BRZ’s torqeband, spawning many different theories with no real conclusive explanation. Intake acoustics have been found to have the greatest effect on this. Subaru’s solution for next year is to adopt TGV (tumble generator valve federated) into next years model lineup.
Other changes may include watercooled EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) with a collector, Hitachi DI injection drivers ECU and Hitachi injectors with a dual spray pattern.
06-11-12, 10:51 AM
#2349
Interesting. I went to see one this weekend and was relatively impressed by the interior. I hate the Scion's rotary ***** vs. the Subaru's switches on the center dash, but I felt like the interior was pretty high quality. I liked the faux carbon fiber...the dark color didn't make for too much of a contrast with the rest of the interior, which I like.
Agree. For ~2k more, BRZ is a no brainer with the LED headlights, nicer fogs, better interior and premium features. If Scion does a special edition with alcantara interior, LED headlights, fogs, and the auto climate controls, I may very well pick one up due to pricing advantages (family), but if not, the Subaru gets my vote.
Agree. For ~2k more, BRZ is a no brainer with the LED headlights, nicer fogs, better interior and premium features. If Scion does a special edition with alcantara interior, LED headlights, fogs, and the auto climate controls, I may very well pick one up due to pricing advantages (family), but if not, the Subaru gets my vote.
06-11-12, 11:18 AM
#2350
Lexus Fanatic
Any of you guys who want one, you may need to get on a waiting list. These cars are not going to be produced in large numbers.....and, of course, will be split between Subaru and Scion dealerships. My local home-Subaru-shop, for example, (which is a decent-sized place) is only going to get 20 of them this year. Every one that comes in is pre-sold (which is why I haven't been able to do a test-drive). For a number of reasons (including simple respect for others), I won't test-drive a car that is already sold, unless it is with and for someone I am car-shopping with, to check the car out for defects and needed-repairs.
06-11-12, 11:43 AM
#2351
I feel very guilty for wanting to get into an FR-S from an IS250. I know it's a downgrade, but I see myself having a lot more fun in an FR-S...
I guess because I came from a 4runner(practical), into an IS(kinda sporty/luxurious), and now I'm looking for some fun factor.
I guess because I came from a 4runner(practical), into an IS(kinda sporty/luxurious), and now I'm looking for some fun factor.
06-11-12, 04:20 PM
#2352
Pole Position
One more observation I forgot to mention: the manual felt a little notchy between gears. Not as buttery smooth as say Honduhs. Anyone else feel this as well? It's sort of a nitpick and i'm accustomed to Toyco sticks in the past anyways (Supra TTs, etc.) so it won't influence decision too much. It does have a short throw however.
06-12-12, 01:08 AM
#2353
What part of "Your driving style will vary the mpg greatly" didn't you understand? In fact, I had a chat with a FR-S owner over the weekend and he's reporting only real-world mileage of "~20mpg at most", but then again he's a professed racer and leadfoot. As they always state, YMMV.
In fact, I had a chat with a FR-S owner over the weekend and he's reporting only real-world mileage of "~20mpg at most", but then again he's a professed racer and leadfoot. As they always state, YMMV.dude, cars were driven in the same way for the comparo in the Motortrend... And 2.0T got 10 MPG worse. What exactly are you talking about? Are you thinking they babied the FRS but gunned 2.0T all the time? That is ridiculous, especially since FRS is NA, I bet they revved it a lot more than 2.0T.
I know you want to like the Hyundai but every journalist reported the same about it. It is not a very good car.
06-12-12, 02:47 AM
#2354
Lexus Test Driver
On another note I finally got a chance to drive an FR-S, and yes like most say you do feel it being a bit underpowered, but man was it a friggin blast to drive!
06-12-12, 03:39 AM
#2355
Lexus Test Driver
I just emailed the dealership, I might take one for a test drive. Seeing I am still waiting for the Prius C. If they can get me the FR-S, before the Prius C, I will go with the FR-S and deal with RWD during the winter. I just wonder what my insurance will be, if I decide to go with the FR-S. Seeing the Prius C, I'd be paying like $75/month.
The fuel economy pretty good for the FR-S and what not, it isn't no Prius C but it will do.
The fuel economy pretty good for the FR-S and what not, it isn't no Prius C but it will do.