Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
07-15-12, 03:47 PM
#2506
Not challenging that aspect. However, the feeling of the passenger cabin cannot be discounted nonetheless and I wanted to bring that up. Happy revving!
07-17-12, 12:22 PM
#2508
The BRZ is very much like a Mazda RX-8 in its moves: there’s no reluctance to turn, and the obedient chassis never bites back. It’s predictable, secure, and very fast.
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...#ixzz20uPHSO2i
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...#ixzz20uPHSO2i
Please someone convince me that the Scion FR-S I just saw on tv (then went to Scion and did a side by side with an RX-8 pic) isn't a Mazda RX-8 ripoff... The Scion I admit has a little more rounded curves and 2 doors but the profile looks exactly like an RX-8.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...da-rx-8-a.html
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...da-rx-8-a.html
S800s were neat little cars, 10,000 RPM redline. The FRS is just a wannabe Mazda RX-8. Clearly the design was inspired by a Xerox copy of the RX-8.
Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9153...#ixzz20uQBZsAN
Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9153...#ixzz20uQBZsAN
I find it easy to believe Toyota's claim that they did the bulk of the styling, because the FR-S looks pretty dull, with a shape that reminds me of a genericized (is that a word? Well, it is now) Mazda RX-8.
http://cars.about.com/od/scion/fr/20...r-S-Review.htm
http://cars.about.com/od/scion/fr/20...r-S-Review.htm
07-17-12, 12:46 PM
#2509
[quote=chikoo;7363432]
Otherwise, interior doesnt look too similar either, it is a lot closer to MR-S, that came out in1999, than RX-8. RX-8 is very fluid and curvy while MR-S and FR-S are blocky and upright.
not to mention Celica, from 1999.
Who was inspired by what?
Otherwise, interior doesnt look too similar either, it is a lot closer to MR-S, that came out in1999, than RX-8. RX-8 is very fluid and curvy while MR-S and FR-S are blocky and upright.
not to mention Celica, from 1999.
Who was inspired by what?
Last edited by spwolf; 07-18-12 at 08:41 AM.
07-18-12, 04:57 AM
#2510
Cnet
CNET Editors' Rating
3.5 stars Very good
$24,200.00
Review Date: 7/16/12
The good: The 2013 Scion FR-S handles beautifully, with extremely well-tuned suspension and steering gear. Digital audio sources include HD Radio, Bluetooth streaming, iPod, and USB drive.
The bad: Low torque leads to mild starts and not much thrust out of a turn. The available Bespoke head unit only integrates apps and navigation with the iPhone 4 or better.
The bottom line: The 2013 Scion FR-S is a fun sports car, excellent in the turns but lacking big thrust, while the cabin tech upgrade looks intriguing for iPhone users.
In automotive circles, the 2013 Scion FR-S and its identical twin the Subaru BRZ have been anticipated and talked up incessantly. However, for those attracted to this review by the pretty picture, let me briefly recite the car's development history. Toyota, missing a sports car from its lineup for years, codeveloped the FR-S with Subaru, of which it owns a large stake.3.5 stars Very good
$24,200.00
Review Date: 7/16/12
The good: The 2013 Scion FR-S handles beautifully, with extremely well-tuned suspension and steering gear. Digital audio sources include HD Radio, Bluetooth streaming, iPod, and USB drive.
The bad: Low torque leads to mild starts and not much thrust out of a turn. The available Bespoke head unit only integrates apps and navigation with the iPhone 4 or better.
The bottom line: The 2013 Scion FR-S is a fun sports car, excellent in the turns but lacking big thrust, while the cabin tech upgrade looks intriguing for iPhone users.
Toyota markets the new car elsewhere in the world as the GT-86, but put it under the Scion brand in the U.S. as the FR-S. Subaru sells a car identical in running gear and bodywork called the BRZ. The FR-S hearkens back to the Toyota Supra, out of production for almost a decade, and was designed as a pure sports car, rear-wheel drive and all.
After driving the FR-S over the twistiest roads I could find, I can say that the Toyota and Subaru teams developing this car wholly succeeded. From handling to bodywork to engine, it would be almost petty to point out any flaws.
The greatest joy in driving the FR-S comes from maneuvering through a turn. The response to the wheel felt perfect as the car's nose followed my intentions. Although like most modern cars the FR-S uses an electric power-steering system, I was hard-pressed to notice it. The engineers tuned the steering exceedingly well, bringing in a lot of weight to the wheel and eliminating understeer.
Likewise, the fixed suspension delivers flat cornering, while a limited-slip differential maintains power at both rear wheels. The FR-S' short wheelbase, about 8.5 feet, contributes to its tight cornering. Overall length is just under 14 feet. From the low-slung driver's seat, the hood looks wide and short, with fender bumps marking the edges.
I found a little trail-braking could make the FR-S dance a little tighter, but did not feel all that necessary as it tracked so well through the turns.
The Scion FR-S looks and handles like a sports car, and uses rear-wheel-drive architecture.
(Credit: James Martin/CNET)
1 petty critique, however, is of the car's braking performance. Ventilated discs all around, the brakes do not offer the kind of modulated slowing power I wanted when entering a turn. Tuners can look to this area as an initial upgrade.
The cornering also became more satisfying when I pushed the VSC Sport button, which initiated a sport mode in the vehicle stability control program. Pushing this button also lit up a warning that the traction control was off in the instrument panel, but that wasn't entirely true. The traction control system seemed dialed down a little but still active, and kept the FR-S from being tail-happy. However, unlike in the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, traction control never felt intrusive.
Back to being petty, the engine often feels short of power. This Subaru-designed flat 4 displaces 2 liters in the cylinders, which it feeds through Toyota's combination direct and port injection system. Toyota originally used this 2-mode fuel delivery system in its Lexus models, with port injection working at low engine speeds to eliminate injector clatter, and direct injection taking over at higher engine speeds to deliver better efficiency. I do not think Toyota would lose much to drop the port injection part of this system.
The instrument cluster puts the tachometer up front, although the digital speed readout is a practical touch.
(Credit: James Martin/CNET)
The engine makes 200 horsepower but only 150 pound-feet of torque, and at 7,000rpm it sounds like a cat being run through a rock polisher. The sound coming out of the FR-S is not an exhaust note, just the natural, untuned result of a series of small, contained explosions. And while 200 horsepower should be more than adequate, the low torque number makes itself felt in a variety of situations.
Coming to a turn exit, the tachometer pointing above 6,000rpm, the FR-S had little power to give. Flooring the gas pedal did not give the car a big push. Likewise, attempting a fast start, the FR-S feels mild-mannered as the tachometer reels up toward redline in 1st gear, taking much more time than I expected from the excellent sports car design of the body. The FR-S handles like a champ but is no drag strip car.
Scion offers the FR-S with a 6-speed automatic, but there is a special place in hell for people who choose that option. The 6-speed manual, with which CNET's car was equipped, is the clear choice. This transmission has a typical Japanese engineering feel, precise but very mechanical. I could feel and hear the bearings in the linkage as I shifted.
The lack of a hill start feature was a minor inconvenience when driving around San Francisco, but the transmission and engine were cooperative in getting started while on a grade, minimizing rollback. And the suspension, while well-tuned for cornering, was not too stiff for everyday driving. The FR-S was surprisingly comfortable over normal city streets, highways, and big, multilane freeways.
The VSC Sport button sits just behind the 6speed manual shifter.
(Credit: James Martin/CNET)
The close ratios of the transmission put the tachometer at 3,000rpm when driving in 6th gear at 65 mph. With the manual transmission, the EPA fuel economy comes in at 22 mpg city and 30 mpg highway, about 4 mpg under the automatic-transmission option. However, I had an easy time keeping the car in the middle of that range, and ended up over 28 mpg as an average, even with plenty of high-rpm driving.
Of other, more practical concern, the FR-S gets Scion's latest cabin electronics, which have changed in the last year. Scion offers a base and an optional Pioneer head unit. The optional system brings in many advanced connected features, such as navigation, Facebook, and Yelp integration. This system, called Bespoke, requires an iPhone 4 or better, which is limiting. I was surprised that Toyota did not offer some form of its new Entune app integration.
CNET's car came with the base Pioneer head unit, a decent non-navigation system with a number of digital audio sources and a Bluetooth phone hands-free system. When I paired my iPhone with the system, it did not download my contact list, although the head unit offers a phone book function. The small screen also shows recent calls and speed dial lists. The voice command button for the phone system is on the lower left of the head unit.
The monochrome screen is smallish, but works well enough in conjunction with the dial for browsing a music library.
(Credit: James Martin/CNET)
This head unit handled music playing from my iPhone well, either cabled to the USB port or through Bluetooth streaming. With Bluetooth, it actually showed full track information on the display. Browsing my music library was relatively quick using the dial on the head unit. For FM, the head unit included an HD tuner, which could pick up a station's multicasts.
The 8-speaker audio system in the car was as youth-oriented as the brand, with strong bass response. I could feel the bass pulses against my left calf from the door woofer. Mids and highs were not quite as strong, but still clear. When I turned up the volume, panel rattle became evident.
In sum
I found the 2013 Scion FR-S perfectly satisfying when I put it into a tight turn, followed by a dollop of disappointment as I tried to power out of the exit. Trying for a fast start was equally disappointing, as the FR-S does not launch fast. The car is at its best in a set of tight turns. Track day hopefuls will quickly wish they had bought an M3.
The base Pioneer head unit in the car offered an excellent set of audio sources. I was completely happy with the stereo, although panel rattle got obnoxious at high volumes. With its lack of voice command, the Bluetooth phone system proved annoying when I wanted to initiate a call. The upgrade Bespoke head unit, with its app integration, sounds very intriguing, although its iPhone 4 requirement is a bit limitation.
Tech specs
Model 2013 Scion FR-S
Trim N/A
Power train Direct and port injection 2-liter 4-cylinder engine, 6-speed manual transmission
EPA fuel economy 22 mpg city/30 mpg highway
Observed fuel economy 28.3 mpg
Navigation Optional, cloud-based system
Bluetooth phone support Standard
Digital audio sources Pandora, Bluetooth streaming, iPod integration, USB drive, satellite radio, HD Radio
Audio system Pioneer 160-watt 8-speaker system
Driver aids None
Base price $24,200
Price as tested $24,930
Model 2013 Scion FR-S
Trim N/A
Power train Direct and port injection 2-liter 4-cylinder engine, 6-speed manual transmission
EPA fuel economy 22 mpg city/30 mpg highway
Observed fuel economy 28.3 mpg
Navigation Optional, cloud-based system
Bluetooth phone support Standard
Digital audio sources Pandora, Bluetooth streaming, iPod integration, USB drive, satellite radio, HD Radio
Audio system Pioneer 160-watt 8-speaker system
Driver aids None
Base price $24,200
Price as tested $24,930
07-18-12, 05:31 AM
#2511
The lack of a hill start feature was a minor inconvenience when driving around San Francisco, but the transmission and engine were cooperative in getting started while on a grade, minimizing rollback. And the suspension, while well-tuned for cornering, was not too stiff for everyday driving. The FR-S was surprisingly comfortable over normal city streets, highways, and big, multilane freeways.
07-18-12, 08:21 AM
#2512
so out of all those links, it is two guys on forums and reviewer on about.com? Last two links say nothing like that. Plus about.com reviewer thinks it is outside design of RX-8, not inside, which is.... laughable as they dont look anything alike.
Otherwise, interior doesnt look too similar either, it is a lot closer to MR-S, that came out in1999, than RX-8. RX-8 is very fluid and curvy while MR-S and FR-S are blocky and upright.
g[/IMG]
Otherwise, interior doesnt look too similar either, it is a lot closer to MR-S, that came out in1999, than RX-8. RX-8 is very fluid and curvy while MR-S and FR-S are blocky and upright.
g[/IMG]
07-18-12, 08:30 AM
#2513
Right? Because I had MR-S for 5 years, I even turboed it myself and design principles are pretty much the same.
07-18-12, 02:02 PM
#2515
If I find one somewhere, I will give it a try. But you cannot deny the apparent look and feel of the Mazda RX-8 interior that has trickled into the FR-S.
07-18-12, 02:03 PM
#2516
[quote=spwolf;7363476]Ha ha... good one.
07-18-12, 02:44 PM
#2519
Lexus Test Driver
07-18-12, 02:51 PM
#2520
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