Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
09-11-12, 07:46 AM
#2657
When a 14k dollar Yaris has 9 air bags, standard a/c, stability control and a decent sound system, your argument is invalid. How about a Nissan Versa that for 11k, has those same amenities, including a CD player with Auxiliary input... From a price standpoint, that is an invalid argument.
I'm not completely bashing this thing, I think it is a cool little car... I just see so much potential for it to be a great car for not a lot more. And for those saying to slap a turbo kit on there, well, that's a hard one to stomach when you void the warranty on a brand new car...
I'm not completely bashing this thing, I think it is a cool little car... I just see so much potential for it to be a great car for not a lot more. And for those saying to slap a turbo kit on there, well, that's a hard one to stomach when you void the warranty on a brand new car...
Yaris with less features and less engine is actually $18k.
Supra stopped production due to low sales at the time...
Unless you are living in Cali, you can turbo this thing now and put nicer tires, all for less than 30k.
09-11-12, 07:56 AM
#2658
Guest
Posts: n/a
Correction, Mazda had 180 wheel HP... for the engine of the year, that thing was terribly overrated, so much so that new owners thought electronics were limiting power because the front wheels weren't spinning on a dyno. Then Mazda derated its advertised horsepower. It was a far cry from the Rx7 it was meant to replace, which, reliability issues aside, was an amazing car, also very light, also much more power than the FRS...
I sure know that the aftermarket has responded, that was my whole point... if within 6 months of a cars release, they are more than doubling the output, there is a market for it... This thing could have been Toyota's next Supra TT, instead we get the watered down version... don't think there wasn't a market for the Supra TT? Try buying one in decent condition for less than 15k... a car that is 20 years old almost, and commands more than 30% of its original selling price...
And all they had to do was give it some more power...
I sure know that the aftermarket has responded, that was my whole point... if within 6 months of a cars release, they are more than doubling the output, there is a market for it... This thing could have been Toyota's next Supra TT, instead we get the watered down version... don't think there wasn't a market for the Supra TT? Try buying one in decent condition for less than 15k... a car that is 20 years old almost, and commands more than 30% of its original selling price...
And all they had to do was give it some more power...
You guys crack me up.
You don't know how good you have it in that your only gripe is lack of power.
Lack of power is the easiest thing to fix in the aftermarket, or even at the OEM level, should Toyota and Subaru decide down the road to do it.
What can't you fix easily? A pig heavy car that doesn't handle well, a high center of gravity, a high price of admission, the wrong wheels being driven, crap chassis dynamics, a car that is not rewarding to drive, or a car built in Mexico.
You can't fix ANY of these things. And these are problems that the competition does have.
Adding power is a piece of cake these days for those who want it.
Stop whining, the hard part is done, they have a stunning chassis. No one else has this. Except maybe for Miata.
So if this is your only complaint, they did a great job. This car is for the purist, if YOU want more juice, you can add it yourself.
You don't know how good you have it in that your only gripe is lack of power.
Lack of power is the easiest thing to fix in the aftermarket, or even at the OEM level, should Toyota and Subaru decide down the road to do it.
What can't you fix easily? A pig heavy car that doesn't handle well, a high center of gravity, a high price of admission, the wrong wheels being driven, crap chassis dynamics, a car that is not rewarding to drive, or a car built in Mexico.
You can't fix ANY of these things. And these are problems that the competition does have.
Adding power is a piece of cake these days for those who want it.
Stop whining, the hard part is done, they have a stunning chassis. No one else has this. Except maybe for Miata.
So if this is your only complaint, they did a great job. This car is for the purist, if YOU want more juice, you can add it yourself.
09-11-12, 02:18 PM
#2659
Lexus Champion
Have you driven a new Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, or Charger? They are all pigs of cars and you can feel it... the Z car is really the only lighter, properly powered car on the market, and its a fine car. I am not shopping for anything as of current, my IS handles plenty well as it is, is relatively light as it is, and with the addition of a turbo, has a good power to weight ratio... better than the FRS...
As far as not having the tech to build a turbo motor for this thing, that ridiculous, Subaru.has been turboing these motors for years, offered in the US since 2002...
As far as not having the tech to build a turbo motor for this thing, that ridiculous, Subaru.has been turboing these motors for years, offered in the US since 2002...
Very excited! Love this car (all 3 of them lol).
09-15-12, 11:23 AM
#2662
Lexus Champion
Not sure if this has been posted, but damn they are getting some decent power out of these things...
This kit is supposed to be for 6k when completed + your own clutch which isn't half bad IMO.
Some more of it...
This kit is supposed to be for 6k when completed + your own clutch which isn't half bad IMO.
Some more of it...
09-15-12, 08:57 PM
#2663
Personally, I'd love to see a Toyota built car compete again... it has been way too long since Toyota had a true sports car...
200 hp is not enough to be competitive... maybe as the cheapie option, but at least have a higher horsepower version...
If I was to buy a new car today, it would be hard to buy a FR-S and spend 6-8k on a turbo kit voiding any inkling of a factory warranty, when I could spend that money on a EVO and have a factory warranty, I know it is a tough comparison, but it is a hard one not to make... On top of that, you could mod the EVO enough to make even more power (50-80 more) and be able to maintain a warranty, because the mods are reversible... a turbo kit not so much, not to mention emissions issues for those in states that care about that stuff...
It just irritates me they got so close, but are leaving out the good stuff...
Imagine the sports car world today if there never was a Supra turbo, Talon/Eclipse Turbo, 300ZX Turbo, 3000GT/Stealth Turbo, RX-7 turbo, MR2 turbo, Grand National Turbo... When I think back about cool cars in their day, I don't think about the naturally aspirated versions of these cars, why would I - they were all completely uninspiring. Even Mazda released a turbo Miata in response to demand...
09-20-12, 05:19 PM
#2665
Lexus Test Driver
Finally Test Drove FR-S Today.
I must say it lived up to the hype. The dealer tossed me the keys and walked away, so I spent >30 minutes blasting down curvy roads, and then some freeway time, and a little puttering around town. It was a red automatic. The dealer was about to load it up with accessories that would push the price north of $30K before tax, license, and fees. Total rip off, but I won't get into that here.
PROS:
- Dynamics are superb. Handling is really sharp and communicative. Forgiving yet precise. Can't say enough good things about the balance.
- Power was actually sufficient. My biggest worry was that FR-S engine would be wimpy. It feels pretty strong and well suited to the car. I wouldn't worry about freeway merging as long as I could get into the right gear.
- Automatic was a pleasure. I wouldn't be embarrassed at all to own the automatic for commuting. The paddle shifters were sublime, with excellent rev-matched downshifts that were smooth and addictive. Plenty fast too.
- The cockpit felt well screwed together, comfortable, and immediately familiar. I would take mine with zero options. The $845 audio is totally unnecessary
- Fun factor was high. Easy to enjoy the car at any speed, and to toss it around any kind of curve was a joy. I spent alot of time smiling and LOL'ing
- Gas mileage is good for something with this kind of performance
CONS:
- Don't like the sound of the engine, especially at idle. You Subie guys might like it, but I'm not a fan of the boxer noises
- Highway ride was decent but the noise could get old quick if you were to take a road trip
- No center arm rest
- I don't have an FR-S in my garage!
Would I buy one:
I'm in the market for a third fun car. I have a DD to commute to work and a family truckster for hauling the munchkins and their stuff. What I don't have is something fun for Dad.
For pure fun factor, bang for the buck, and real world enjoyment, this is a sure winner.
However, when I thought about when I could drive this thing, I realized it wasn't a possibility for me. Why? Because:
- Commuting would be tiring in this due to road noise and busy engine
- I have to be able to pick up and drop off the kids in a pinch, and at 6"1' the space behind my seat would barely allow two fingers, much less two little legs
- Could the wife and I take a weekend jaunt in it? Yes, but there is limited luggage space, and again, the wife would probably get sick of the ride
- Track days? Yes! Track DAYS! Am I really going to do that more than 3x a year? No. Would I buy a car just for that?
- I guess I've realized that I'm at a stage in my life where I need a car that can fill many different roles all at once. Hope you can still respect me.
If you're single and an enthusiast, go out and buy this car now while you still can. Just don't let the dealer add any accessories
I must say it lived up to the hype. The dealer tossed me the keys and walked away, so I spent >30 minutes blasting down curvy roads, and then some freeway time, and a little puttering around town. It was a red automatic. The dealer was about to load it up with accessories that would push the price north of $30K before tax, license, and fees. Total rip off, but I won't get into that here.
PROS:
- Dynamics are superb. Handling is really sharp and communicative. Forgiving yet precise. Can't say enough good things about the balance.
- Power was actually sufficient. My biggest worry was that FR-S engine would be wimpy. It feels pretty strong and well suited to the car. I wouldn't worry about freeway merging as long as I could get into the right gear.
- Automatic was a pleasure. I wouldn't be embarrassed at all to own the automatic for commuting. The paddle shifters were sublime, with excellent rev-matched downshifts that were smooth and addictive. Plenty fast too.
- The cockpit felt well screwed together, comfortable, and immediately familiar. I would take mine with zero options. The $845 audio is totally unnecessary
- Fun factor was high. Easy to enjoy the car at any speed, and to toss it around any kind of curve was a joy. I spent alot of time smiling and LOL'ing
- Gas mileage is good for something with this kind of performance
CONS:
- Don't like the sound of the engine, especially at idle. You Subie guys might like it, but I'm not a fan of the boxer noises
- Highway ride was decent but the noise could get old quick if you were to take a road trip
- No center arm rest
- I don't have an FR-S in my garage!
Would I buy one:
I'm in the market for a third fun car. I have a DD to commute to work and a family truckster for hauling the munchkins and their stuff. What I don't have is something fun for Dad.
For pure fun factor, bang for the buck, and real world enjoyment, this is a sure winner.
However, when I thought about when I could drive this thing, I realized it wasn't a possibility for me. Why? Because:
- Commuting would be tiring in this due to road noise and busy engine
- I have to be able to pick up and drop off the kids in a pinch, and at 6"1' the space behind my seat would barely allow two fingers, much less two little legs
- Could the wife and I take a weekend jaunt in it? Yes, but there is limited luggage space, and again, the wife would probably get sick of the ride
- Track days? Yes! Track DAYS! Am I really going to do that more than 3x a year? No. Would I buy a car just for that?
- I guess I've realized that I'm at a stage in my life where I need a car that can fill many different roles all at once. Hope you can still respect me.
If you're single and an enthusiast, go out and buy this car now while you still can. Just don't let the dealer add any accessories
09-20-12, 06:53 PM
#2666
Lexus Champion
Nice review^^^ i'm waiting to see how the drivetrain holds up to boost. So far its been a beast of a drivetrain since the tranny is from a is300 and engine has been holding up nicely even at 9k rpm. They're pushing 461whp last time i checked. Good stuff!!
09-20-12, 07:11 PM
#2667
Lexus Test Driver
Seat of the pants feeling: extremely robust. Boost it and it will be bulletproof
09-21-12, 10:58 AM
#2669
Pole Position
09-21-12, 11:12 AM
#2670
Lexus Champion
I love the FR-S // BR-Z but with the lack of power - why not just get something like this instead?
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...26949830&Log=0
NVM ----- the 370z handling doesn't approach that of the FRS/BRZ.....but with coilovers + sways?
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...26949830&Log=0
NVM ----- the 370z handling doesn't approach that of the FRS/BRZ.....but with coilovers + sways?
Last edited by bagwell; 09-24-12 at 09:13 AM.