Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
10-06-09, 02:07 PM
#256
I think people may be jumping the gun by comparing this to the Genesis coupe, 370Z, Mustang, and RX8. Consider a few things:
1) Size- this thing is even smaller than a Scion tC. The above are basically midsize
2) Power- a base 4 cylinder engine puts the car closest to the Genesis but nowhere near the others.
3) Price- Toyota is trying to stay as close to $20K as possible and many of the others start in the mid $20K mark.
While it's all speculation, I think the closest competitor to this car that I have seen is the Honda Civic Si coupe. Yes I am sure that the Genesis will be cross shopped based on price and engines, but I really doubt that the Z and others will be, for all of the reasons I posted above. This car is SMALL and powered by a 4 cylinder. The others are 6 cylinder and much larger.
My point is that while they may be cross shopped to a degree, the Toyota is really in a different class than the others.
1) Size- this thing is even smaller than a Scion tC. The above are basically midsize
2) Power- a base 4 cylinder engine puts the car closest to the Genesis but nowhere near the others.
3) Price- Toyota is trying to stay as close to $20K as possible and many of the others start in the mid $20K mark.
While it's all speculation, I think the closest competitor to this car that I have seen is the Honda Civic Si coupe. Yes I am sure that the Genesis will be cross shopped based on price and engines, but I really doubt that the Z and others will be, for all of the reasons I posted above. This car is SMALL and powered by a 4 cylinder. The others are 6 cylinder and much larger.
My point is that while they may be cross shopped to a degree, the Toyota is really in a different class than the others.
10-06-09, 02:20 PM
#257
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I think people may be jumping the gun by comparing this to the Genesis coupe, 370Z, Mustang, and RX8. Consider a few things:
1) Size- this thing is even smaller than a Scion tC. The above are basically midsize
2) Power- a base 4 cylinder engine puts the car closest to the Genesis but nowhere near the others.
3) Price- Toyota is trying to stay as close to $20K as possible and many of the others start in the mid $20K mark.
While it's all speculation, I think the closest competitor to this car that I have seen is the Honda Civic Si coupe. Yes I am sure that the Genesis will be cross shopped based on price and engines, but I really doubt that the Z and others will be, for all of the reasons I posted above. This car is SMALL and powered by a 4 cylinder. The others are 6 cylinder and much larger.
My point is that while they may be cross shopped to a degree, the Toyota is really in a different class than the others.
1) Size- this thing is even smaller than a Scion tC. The above are basically midsize
2) Power- a base 4 cylinder engine puts the car closest to the Genesis but nowhere near the others.
3) Price- Toyota is trying to stay as close to $20K as possible and many of the others start in the mid $20K mark.
While it's all speculation, I think the closest competitor to this car that I have seen is the Honda Civic Si coupe. Yes I am sure that the Genesis will be cross shopped based on price and engines, but I really doubt that the Z and others will be, for all of the reasons I posted above. This car is SMALL and powered by a 4 cylinder. The others are 6 cylinder and much larger.
My point is that while they may be cross shopped to a degree, the Toyota is really in a different class than the others.
A RWD Honda Civic coupe/Kia Forte Koup alternative, or something that plugs the gap between the Mazda MX-5 Miata and the base Hyundai Genesis coupe are two possible ways to state where the FT-86 fits in.
As of now, it's accurate to say that, like the Lexus HS 250h, the production Toyota FT-86 will be by itself, in a class of one.
10-06-09, 02:45 PM
#258
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Design analysis...very interesting: http://jalopnik.com/5375502/
Yup. It's important for people to compare apples to apples and keep trims and equipment levels in perspective.
I obviously just made up pricing in my post, which I think is logical, and actually tracks some other cars out there pretty closely.
Someone might say, but at $29K, the Genesis coupe has a V6. So what? If the Toyotabaru comes with a high-output NA boxer as is expected, it's acceleration should be comparable to a V6 Genesis, but will of course out-handle it and probably get better MPG. Also, a high-output boxer in a small, lightweight coupe will surely be more entertaining than a relatively middle-of-the-road V6 in a relatively not-lightweight coupe. Also, in order to get a 2.0L NA boxer at or above 200HP, it will require some nifty technology and machining, which will make it more expensive than, say a Hyundai V6, which contains less technology and is made in far larger quantities.
I obviously just made up pricing in my post, which I think is logical, and actually tracks some other cars out there pretty closely.
Someone might say, but at $29K, the Genesis coupe has a V6. So what? If the Toyotabaru comes with a high-output NA boxer as is expected, it's acceleration should be comparable to a V6 Genesis, but will of course out-handle it and probably get better MPG. Also, a high-output boxer in a small, lightweight coupe will surely be more entertaining than a relatively middle-of-the-road V6 in a relatively not-lightweight coupe. Also, in order to get a 2.0L NA boxer at or above 200HP, it will require some nifty technology and machining, which will make it more expensive than, say a Hyundai V6, which contains less technology and is made in far larger quantities.
I want to remind people what helps the Genesis price is
1. Its shares its platform/engine with the sedan
2. The Korean won exhange rate
That said I still LOVE the Genesis coupe.
10-06-09, 02:47 PM
#259
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1. Base 4 with around 170-180hp
2. Boxer engine with 250-280hp
Emphasis on keeping weight down
10-06-09, 02:53 PM
#260
Optioned out around $26k with option 2 being available would not be bad at all.Funny thing is there has always been the WRX/STi vs Evo comparison, but now we might have FT-86 vs Genesis Coupe comparison, when at heart it's still may be WRX/STi vs Evo... haha
10-06-09, 03:27 PM
#264
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10-06-09, 03:29 PM
#265
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10-06-09, 03:30 PM
#266
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I totally agree.
A RWD Honda Civic coupe/Kia Forte Koup alternative, or something that plugs the gap between the Mazda MX-5 Miata and the base Hyundai Genesis coupe are two possible ways to state where the FT-86 fits in.
As of now, it's accurate to say that, like the Lexus HS 250h, the production Toyota FT-86 will be by itself, in a class of one.
A RWD Honda Civic coupe/Kia Forte Koup alternative, or something that plugs the gap between the Mazda MX-5 Miata and the base Hyundai Genesis coupe are two possible ways to state where the FT-86 fits in.
As of now, it's accurate to say that, like the Lexus HS 250h, the production Toyota FT-86 will be by itself, in a class of one.
10-06-09, 03:56 PM
#267
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Yup. It's important for people to compare apples to apples and keep trims and equipment levels in perspective.
I obviously just made up pricing in my post, which I think is logical, and actually tracks some other cars out there pretty closely.
Someone might say, but at $29K, the Genesis coupe has a V6. So what? If the Toyotabaru comes with a high-output NA boxer as is expected, it's acceleration should be comparable to a V6 Genesis, but will of course out-handle it and probably get better MPG. Also, a high-output boxer in a small, lightweight coupe will surely be more entertaining than a relatively middle-of-the-road V6 in a relatively not-lightweight coupe. Also, in order to get a 2.0L NA boxer at or above 200HP, it will require some nifty technology and machining, which will make it more expensive than, say a Hyundai V6, which contains less technology and is made in far larger quantities.
I obviously just made up pricing in my post, which I think is logical, and actually tracks some other cars out there pretty closely.
Someone might say, but at $29K, the Genesis coupe has a V6. So what? If the Toyotabaru comes with a high-output NA boxer as is expected, it's acceleration should be comparable to a V6 Genesis, but will of course out-handle it and probably get better MPG. Also, a high-output boxer in a small, lightweight coupe will surely be more entertaining than a relatively middle-of-the-road V6 in a relatively not-lightweight coupe. Also, in order to get a 2.0L NA boxer at or above 200HP, it will require some nifty technology and machining, which will make it more expensive than, say a Hyundai V6, which contains less technology and is made in far larger quantities.
