MR_F1

This is not what Scion needs to save it.

MR_F1

Toyota would be dumber than a bag of hammers to make the ft-86 a scion. What of their 100hp rwd hatchback, for sub ~$15k? Sounds more scion-like to me.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

Agreed. Half the time dealers and salesman at dealers don't even know much of anything about cars except how to sell them. I've heard dealers say some really stupid stuff about cars trying to get me to buy.

Since when was WSJ a good source for automotive news, for shame Autoblog for shame.

SecPole14

I believe the news that they will dumb it down and sell it as a Scion. Awful.

I have ZERO goodwill left toward this car. The ONLY thing that is clear is that this ship has no captain. This whole things REEKS of committee work.

If they had one person in charge with a clear vision, one of two things would have happened by now:

1) This project would be officially dead, canceled period.
2) It would be on-track for production with the style and performance everyone was hoping for.

There's something VERY wrong at Toyota with regard to how they handled this product. Did they have someone good at the helm who asked for reassignment because of internal red tape? Did no one good step up because they were afraid of being tasked with the impossible (creating an icon that lives up to all the hype and expectations), and didn't want to risk their career?

Just sad.

MR_F1

^ WTF are you on about?!?!

Fizzboy7

Not sure about all that, but the slow FT project and lack of others from Toyota and Lexus signify things are not done the same why today as they once were 10-20 years ago. New cars did not take this long to come to fruition (not considering the recent hybrids), and we were treated to many more new models. Now we're lucky to see something new, different, or exciting once every 5-6 years. Or at least that's how it feels. Of course the recession has probably played some role with this frequency. Money and funds are spent so cautiously and prudently now.

Cleanshots

iTrader: (2)

wow this car went from cool to garbage in one post lol. i had a doubt as soon as i saw a zipper on the dash then this whole scion thing.. what was the point of creating scion? and a good car being sold as a toyota downgrade scion is just a big mistake and at 25k? that's one expensive bathtub!

dj.ctwatt

Not that I disagree, but I think this forum's (as well as most of the buying public) opinion of Scion places the brand FAR below Hyundai, Kia, and even Dodge.

TF109B

This whole Scion thing is hearsay. Wait till something is official, then we can see what's up. If it's true though, this means that there has to be a Toyota model. Subaru has their model coming around too, making at least 250HP, so Toyota will have to do at least that, and IMO will one-up it.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

I might be biased seeing as I drive a Scion tC but I think the general buying public would place the aforementioned brands below Scion. Although, I feel that your statement is right about the majority of this forum. Scion is known to be a Toyota brand (they're not hiding it, they sell Scions in Toyota dealerships). Hyundai and Kia have had years of cheap and crappy cars, although I feel that they've improved VASTLY over the years but being that I'm an auto-enthusiast I don't consider myself the general buying public. Dodge doesn't even have any cars that compete in this class, unless you count the fail-boat Caliber.

Scions sell, I see them all over the place. They may be slowing in sales but that's because they ave a fairly stale product line up (too soon to say for the new 2011 tC). Other brands are copying Scion not only by product (Cube, Soul) but also by sales strategies. Scion uses the genius idea of selling a loaded car that's cheap and upselling accessories that mostly can be tacked right onto the financing. Toyota is happy because they're moving car at volume because they're cheaper and loaded. The dealers are happy because they're making money off of sales as well as upsales (I'm sure most of Scion revenue is from upselling).

People forget that the price tag with the Scion is loaded standard with things younger buyers want that you would have to pay as an option or package with another comparable vehicle. My car was MSRP at 21k (I got away with less but that's another story on how dealer's can work the no haggle price system) with a limited edition vehicle (Alcantara seating, lip kit, special paint, some interior goodies like leather wheel and dark wood shift ****) amongst other standard features (ipod integration, 6 speaker + subwoofer audio, panoramic roof).

Lexus didn't even have iPod integration for a long time, the next cheapest car I know of that has Alcantara is the STI at 32k, panoramic roofs are almost solely on luxury vehicles.

While I agree the FT-86 shouldn't be branded as a Scion (Scion isn't meant for performance, it's meant for cheap standard loaded quirky vehicles that do everything well and the option of personalization) people shouldn't look down at the FT-86 if it does become a Scion. Hell most of you who are interested in the vehicle might be more apt to buy it because they can't mark up the price of the car. $25k is way too much for a Scion because it'll be hard to tack on more options and accessories.

MR_F1

10-20 years ago, the internet was not as big as it is now, with instantaneous movement of information. Cars were also not as complicated.

LexFather

Yeah its not like Toyota is saying much. Its speculation saying much. There is no doubt this is a highly anticipated model thus a lot of talk of it. There is also a lot of doubt since Toyota's only sporty vehicle is the tC.

I guess I don't get to hype about it b/c Toyota hasn't said much of anything about a Supra and not much about this car. So I'll comment closer to its debut.

MR_F1

I agree with you. I don't look down on scion, however, the thought process that would make Toyota want to market this car as a Scion, worries me, both about the end result of the car itself, and the future of it and Toyota as a whole.

Scion is a marketing oriented brand, I don't want the same minds who asked for the Gen 2 xB and the 2011 tC responsible for asking for the future of the FT-86 thanks.

rotaryrock

via FT86club

New uncovered FT-86 logo shows the small sports coupe will have a boxer motor - with its flat horizontally opposed pistons and "86" in the middle of the logo. Its always been rumored to come with a boxer engine but this is the best proof yet



copied from http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=885

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

interesting. works well for porsche and subie, so why not.