Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
#1396
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
There have been a half dozen different articles stating the price, heck even Edmunds.com has a price of $25k already listed on their "new cars" prices!
But none of it is true, because the prices haven't been released yet, and every indication is the Scion will probably cost less than the Subaru, and probably cost well under $25k with no options.
#1397
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Car and Driver has an excellent article on it this month....including a test-drive of the heavily-disguised pre=production version:
Subaru did virtually all of the chassis/drivetrain engineering (using only a Toyota rear-differental), while Toyota did the body/styling and interior. And the Subaru drive-train/chassis engineers were given latitude to do their work before the styling even began, so that were were no compromises under the skin (except, of course, required by the car's $28,000 base-price)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rototype-drive
Subaru did virtually all of the chassis/drivetrain engineering (using only a Toyota rear-differental), while Toyota did the body/styling and interior. And the Subaru drive-train/chassis engineers were given latitude to do their work before the styling even began, so that were were no compromises under the skin (except, of course, required by the car's $28,000 base-price)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rototype-drive
Interview with FT-86 Chief engineer
The FT-86 will be built at Fuji Heavy’s Subaru, and when I mention that, the engineer’s pride shifts into low gear – for extra revs. Tada quickly explains that this is just contract production, and it’s the same as “when we make cars at Central Motors or Kanto Auto Works.” Both are separate companies, but they are also part of the greater Toyota empire. Toyota owns a good chunk of Fuji Heavy, so Subaru is part of the family – in a way.
Subaru will produce its own version, probably called the BRZ. Both companies also developed the car together, and that must have been an interesting exercise. Recalls Tada:
“The first year was actually quite tough. The character and processes of the two companies are quite different. In the beginning, we sat down and decided who does what. That didn’t work out very well, because of the cultural differences between the companies. When people started to become more interested in the car itself, people from both sides ended up becoming one team. In the end, it wasn’t so much Toyota doing this and Subaru doing that, but people working together with one goal.”
In the maniac, well, enthusiast scene, it is pretty much gospel that the cars use Subaru’s flat four “D4-S” boxer engine. Depending on whom you believe, the production engine ranges from a tried & true to a refined & modified D4-S. That elicits protests from Tada, as loud as the softspoken man can manage:
“No,no, no – it is a completely new engine. The engine is still a boxer. The technology, even the engine block are completely new. Everything is new. The only thing that remained are the mounting points.”
Imagine how much engineer’s pride that one did cost. A completely new engine was developed. At the same time it comes with an invitation to be swapped for whatever follows the Subaru bolt pattern.
Subaru will produce its own version, probably called the BRZ. Both companies also developed the car together, and that must have been an interesting exercise. Recalls Tada:
“The first year was actually quite tough. The character and processes of the two companies are quite different. In the beginning, we sat down and decided who does what. That didn’t work out very well, because of the cultural differences between the companies. When people started to become more interested in the car itself, people from both sides ended up becoming one team. In the end, it wasn’t so much Toyota doing this and Subaru doing that, but people working together with one goal.”
In the maniac, well, enthusiast scene, it is pretty much gospel that the cars use Subaru’s flat four “D4-S” boxer engine. Depending on whom you believe, the production engine ranges from a tried & true to a refined & modified D4-S. That elicits protests from Tada, as loud as the softspoken man can manage:
“No,no, no – it is a completely new engine. The engine is still a boxer. The technology, even the engine block are completely new. Everything is new. The only thing that remained are the mounting points.”
Imagine how much engineer’s pride that one did cost. A completely new engine was developed. At the same time it comes with an invitation to be swapped for whatever follows the Subaru bolt pattern.
#1398
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Perhaps (wouldn't be the first time). But I only posted what the article said....from the C & D journalist who actually did the test-drive and spoke to the car's chassis-engineer. And that article is out of C&D latest 9December 2011) copy, so it is reasonably up-to-date.
#1399
Lexus Champion
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Price is not always determined by power. Look at the Lotus Elise, for example, a much smaller car than this one, and with substatially less power. It sells for twice the price.
Price is usually (but now always) primarily determined by the cost of production, and by what the auto manufacturer thinks the projected market will bear.
The fact that this car will not have many active-competitors doesn't do much either, of course, to help keep the price down. There are few small RWD sports-coupes currently in the American market....which is one of the reasons why this car is being developed in the first-place. Yes, you have the BMW Z4 and 128/135, but they cost substantially more....as does the Mercedes SLK convetible hard-top.
Price is usually (but now always) primarily determined by the cost of production, and by what the auto manufacturer thinks the projected market will bear.
The fact that this car will not have many active-competitors doesn't do much either, of course, to help keep the price down. There are few small RWD sports-coupes currently in the American market....which is one of the reasons why this car is being developed in the first-place. Yes, you have the BMW Z4 and 128/135, but they cost substantially more....as does the Mercedes SLK convetible hard-top.
#1400
Former Sponsor
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Saw this on the FT forum...bolt pattern info....
No, 5x100 pattern sucks. None of the popular track built wheels (i.e. Volk TE37's) come in a deep offset with a 5x100 bolt pattern. Sure you can get 5x100, but there is no deep dish or concave with them. That pattern sucks ********....
Only wheels that are deep and wide with 5x100 are ROTA's and XXR's. Nothing against those, cause I'm going to get some XXR's for the tC. But I wouldn't mind a set of TE37's on the FT and it not look like a flat face to it.
Only wheels that are deep and wide with 5x100 are ROTA's and XXR's. Nothing against those, cause I'm going to get some XXR's for the tC. But I wouldn't mind a set of TE37's on the FT and it not look like a flat face to it.
#1401
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Perhaps (wouldn't be the first time). But I only posted what the article said....from the C & D journalist who actually did the test-drive and spoke to the car's chassis-engineer. And that article is out of C&D latest 9December 2011) copy, so it is reasonably up-to-date.
The "interview" was with their senior manager for engineering and their senior project general manager for product planning.... right. I'll take the work of the chief engineer of the FT-86 project over those guys any day of the week.
“He [ref:A Toyota chief engineer] is the person responsible for the design, development, and sale of the product. He is the organizational pinnacle and the hub through which authority and ability flow. The CE isn’t just an architect or technical lead or just a customer proxy or just a project manager or just process master. He’s all of these things and more. He doesn’t just pass along customer requirements for the product, he defines them. He doesn’t just implement the business’s design for the product, he creates it. He’s large and in-charge, and he’s uniquely and deeply qualified to be so.
Because all of these abilities and authorities are invested in one extremely capable, senior, trusted product development person, the coordination of the various perspectives, values, and vision of a product and its execution don’t suffer design-by-committee issues. And because the CE has these many responsibilities and abilities, he’s a rare person.”
Because all of these abilities and authorities are invested in one extremely capable, senior, trusted product development person, the coordination of the various perspectives, values, and vision of a product and its execution don’t suffer design-by-committee issues. And because the CE has these many responsibilities and abilities, he’s a rare person.”
#1404
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Perhaps (wouldn't be the first time). But I only posted what the article said....from the C & D journalist who actually did the test-drive and spoke to the car's chassis-engineer. And that article is out of C&D latest 9December 2011) copy, so it is reasonably up-to-date.
Chief engineer for the product is... Tada-san from Toyota.
#1407
Lexus Champion
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
![](http://cdn1.worldcarfans.co/2011/11/2/large/3321597811458373286.jpg)
![](http://cdn1.worldcarfans.co/2011/11/2/large/16412481671778499075.jpg)
TRD makes this car (FT-86) better
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
P.S.
@regarding the Subaru version
I'm still not convinced of buying a rear-wheel drive Subaru.
For me:
Subaru is best with Symmetrical All Wheel Drive (then maybe I could make an exception for their Front-Wheel Drive vehicles.....like the Trezia).
But an RWD Subaru? Hmm...........I can't see or feel any reason to consider one. :|
Last edited by Blackraven; 11-04-11 at 12:55 AM.
#1408
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
it will be same car, but as it is more important to toyota, i expect them to have more options and better pricing.
Subaru keeps saying 3000/year sales, WW, which is really low number... I think Toyota wants to sell significantly more than that (tC sells 20k/year in US).
Subaru keeps saying 3000/year sales, WW, which is really low number... I think Toyota wants to sell significantly more than that (tC sells 20k/year in US).