SLegacy99

Exactly my point.

Threxx

Forgive me if I'm not surprised since this isn't a Toyota product.

A 50% gain in city economy and a 10% highway economy is pretty damn good in my book. Especially when it's also providing more power than the non hybrid 5.3L V8 that its economy is being compared to. What more were you expecting?

So a 54% and 11% mileage improvement isn't enough? 54% better mileage means that for every 100 miles the LC drives in the city, the Tahoe will go 54 more miles.
BTW that figure is a Toyota estimate, not an EPA certification.

Honestly I don't recall hearing that it was supposed to be better than Toyota's system. Where were you hearing this?
Hybrid vehicles pretty much never see much of a benefit on the highway because highway driving doesn't lose energy to braking, it loses energy to wind resistance, which can't be recaptured like the heat from brakes can.


Yeah it's silly but it's still an interesting comparison. That Camry is far lighter, has a far smaller and weaker motor, and in general I bet the average person would regard the Camry as a very green vehicle. Tell the average person that the Tahoe will get just as good of mileage around the city as a 4-cylinder Camry and I bet they'd be surprised and impressed. Of course the highway isn't going to match. That's where hybrid benefits leave and wind resistance becomes the primary factor.

You of all people should probably not be talking about bias...

We'll wait until Toyota has a hybrid version of the currently sorely outdated Sequoia (The Tahoe's closest competitor) before we can make any "non-silly" comparisons. Until then, let the silliness continue.

TRDFantasy

That's exactly what I was expecting. A lot of people on other sites and communities, including GM insiders, talked endlessly about how the Two-Mode was better than Toyota's system. The mileage figures are exactly what I expected, and this shows the system is no better than Toyota's in terms of fuel economy improvements. I expected this to fail to live up to the hype. There was also a lot of hype on these other boards that the Two-Mode would see bigger increases in highway fuel economy compared to other hybrids.

Read the disclaimer on Toyota.com posted right beside the LC's mileage. It mentions EPA-estimated mileage.

On many different automotive forums and communities, that was the hype around the Two-Mode: that it was going to be better than Toyota's Synergy Drive.

carguy101

This is the first I've heard that the GM hybrids were supposed to be better than Toyota hybrids. But then again, I don't hang around GM boards.

Anyways, it's hard to compare directly to Toyota hybrids, seeing as how Toyota does not make a full-size SUV hybrid.

I'd be very interested in mpg figures for a hybrid Sequoia, if they ever make one.

rosskoss

I don't think Toyota's HSD can be used on large SUVs/Trucks. That's why they're pursuing the diesel route in that area.

LexFather

I am very impressed and I am happy to see ANY form of hybrid by ANYONE. SUVs are huge profit makers for the American companies and this is a good way to continue selling them. People LOVE their SUVs, this is a good move.

SLegacy99

I read an article about the Audi Q7 coming in both diesel and gasoline hybrid. The article pondered which has better torque delievery.

Just thought that was amusing.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

From my experience with these behemoths, the Yukon is a better drive, more solid in construction, quieter, damn near better truck than a Toyota Sequoia. GM knows how to build trucks!

Mr. Jones

i like how CR's Silverado 5.3L got better mileage than the Tundra's 5.7L, oh wait it didn't.

TRDFantasy

Let's wait and see if Toyota will use their hybrid system on large trucks and SUVs. Also, why is everyone comparing the new GM Yukon and Tahoe to the old Sequoia? The all-new Sequoia is supposed to be unveiled at the LA autoshow, and then we'll see how GM's SUVs compare to it.

Threxx

Have we really gotten down to such trivial isolated statistics just for the sake of argument?

Generally speaking I'd say the EPA's testing methods, especially for 2008, is far more scientific in method and consistency/comparability of results than "Mileage as tested" which just reports the mileage CR got after they ran the truck through various road and track tests with various drivers under varying conditions.

Mr. Jones

GM vehicles consistently fail to live up to their EPA estimates in every comparision test. Moreso than any other manufacture.

EPA estimates vs observed mpg

edmunds:
Tundra
14/18 14.4
Silverado
15/19 12.7

Truck Trend:
Tundra
14/18 8.55
Silverado
15/19 7.20

Truck Trend 2:
Tundra
14/18 14.9
Silverado
16/20 13.9

C&D:
Tundra
14/18 13
Silverado
15/19 12

Popular Mechanics:
Tundra
14/18 15.34
Silverado
15/19 15.4

and CR which has the Tundra 5.7L getting better fuel economy than the Silverado's 5.3L

TRDFantasy

One thing is clear: the 5.7L is a very efficient engine for it's displacement and power. I predict that for 2008 the regular GM trucks and SUVs will see bigger EPA drops than Toyota's 2008 SUVs and trucks will (those equipped with the 5.7L V8). The Land Cruiser EPA estimates actually increased from 2007 to 2008, thanks to the improved efficiency of the 5.7L and the 6 speed auto.

I predict the 2008 Sequoia will see a slight drop in EPA ratings or it might stay the same (current ratings for 2007 are 15/18). Given that the '08 Sequoia is rumoured to have IRS, instead of a solid axle the 08 model might beat the 2007 model's EPA ratings. Tundra 4x4 for 2008 should drop to 13/18 as well, from 14/18 based on 2007 testing.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

One thing is also clear - this thread isn't about Toyota engines and vehicles.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

You bought/leased one of these? If so, congrats! You have now, what, 5 vehicles?

Dang, you go through vehicles like I do peanut butter sandwiches... you bought an 08 Expedition and traded it already? Must have taken a bath. Glad you like the Tahoe though. Someone I know has one and loves it.