2008 Tahoe and Yukon Hybrid SUVs to be rated at 21/22 using 2008 EPA ratings
#32
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Forgive me if I'm not surprised since this isn't a Toyota product.
A 50% gain in city economy and a 10% highway economy is pretty damn good in my book. Especially when it's also providing more power than the non hybrid 5.3L V8 that its economy is being compared to. What more were you expecting?
So a 54% and 11% mileage improvement isn't enough? 54% better mileage means that for every 100 miles the LC drives in the city, the Tahoe will go 54 more miles.
BTW that figure is a Toyota estimate, not an EPA certification.
Honestly I don't recall hearing that it was supposed to be better than Toyota's system. Where were you hearing this?
Hybrid vehicles pretty much never see much of a benefit on the highway because highway driving doesn't lose energy to braking, it loses energy to wind resistance, which can't be recaptured like the heat from brakes can.
Yeah it's silly but it's still an interesting comparison. That Camry is far lighter, has a far smaller and weaker motor, and in general I bet the average person would regard the Camry as a very green vehicle. Tell the average person that the Tahoe will get just as good of mileage around the city as a 4-cylinder Camry and I bet they'd be surprised and impressed. Of course the highway isn't going to match. That's where hybrid benefits leave and wind resistance becomes the primary factor.
You of all people should probably not be talking about bias...
We'll wait until Toyota has a hybrid version of the currently sorely outdated Sequoia (The Tahoe's closest competitor) before we can make any "non-silly" comparisons. Until then, let the silliness continue.
After ALL the hype and hoopla about the two-mode hybrids, and how they would be SO much better than Toyota's hybrids, we get 21/22 EPA numbers?
The new Land Cruiser, which has MORE power than these GM hybrids gets 18 mpg on the highway under the new EPA regulations. The Land Cruiser also has permanent 4WD. Curb weight for the Land Cruiser is roughly the same as the GM hybrids. The EPA numbers for 4WD versions is 20/20. To compare, Land Cruiser EPA numbers are 13/18.
BTW that figure is a Toyota estimate, not an EPA certification.
A nice improvement in city mpg, but nothing special on the highway side and overall the two-mode does NOT seem any better than Toyota's system in terms of fuel economy improvement.
Hybrid vehicles pretty much never see much of a benefit on the highway because highway driving doesn't lose energy to braking, it loses energy to wind resistance, which can't be recaptured like the heat from brakes can.
And comparing these GM hybrid SUVs to a 4 cyl Camry? It's absolutely silly. So what if they slightly beat or match the city mileage of the Camry? The Camry remains MUCH better on the highway. Talk about a biased and narrow-minded comparison. And if you compare these hybrid SUVs to a hybrid Camry? Well then there is even no comparison as the Camry Hybrid's EPA numbers are in a whole other league.
You of all people should probably not be talking about bias...
We'll wait until Toyota has a hybrid version of the currently sorely outdated Sequoia (The Tahoe's closest competitor) before we can make any "non-silly" comparisons. Until then, let the silliness continue.
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Originally Posted by Threxx
So a 54% and 11% mileage improvement isn't enough? 54% better mileage means that for every 100 miles the LC drives in the city, the Tahoe will go 54 more miles.
BTW that figure is a Toyota estimate, not an EPA certification.
BTW that figure is a Toyota estimate, not an EPA certification.
Originally Posted by Threxx
Honestly I don't recall hearing that it was supposed to be better than Toyota's system. Where were you hearing this?
Hybrid vehicles pretty much never see much of a benefit on the highway because highway driving doesn't lose energy to braking, it loses energy to wind resistance, which can't be recaptured like the heat from brakes can.
Hybrid vehicles pretty much never see much of a benefit on the highway because highway driving doesn't lose energy to braking, it loses energy to wind resistance, which can't be recaptured like the heat from brakes can.
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This is the first I've heard that the GM hybrids were supposed to be better than Toyota hybrids. But then again, I don't hang around GM boards.
Anyways, it's hard to compare directly to Toyota hybrids, seeing as how Toyota does not make a full-size SUV hybrid.
I'd be very interested in mpg figures for a hybrid Sequoia, if they ever make one.
Anyways, it's hard to compare directly to Toyota hybrids, seeing as how Toyota does not make a full-size SUV hybrid.
I'd be very interested in mpg figures for a hybrid Sequoia, if they ever make one.
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Let's wait and see if Toyota will use their hybrid system on large trucks and SUVs. Also, why is everyone comparing the new GM Yukon and Tahoe to the old Sequoia? The all-new Sequoia is supposed to be unveiled at the LA autoshow, and then we'll see how GM's SUVs compare to it.
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Generally speaking I'd say the EPA's testing methods, especially for 2008, is far more scientific in method and consistency/comparability of results than "Mileage as tested" which just reports the mileage CR got after they ran the truck through various road and track tests with various drivers under varying conditions.
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GM vehicles consistently fail to live up to their EPA estimates in every comparision test. Moreso than any other manufacture.
EPA estimates vs observed mpg
edmunds:
Tundra
14/18 14.4
Silverado
15/19 12.7
Truck Trend:
Tundra
14/18 8.55
Silverado
15/19 7.20
Truck Trend 2:
Tundra
14/18 14.9
Silverado
16/20 13.9
C&D:
Tundra
14/18 13
Silverado
15/19 12
Popular Mechanics:
Tundra
14/18 15.34
Silverado
15/19 15.4
and CR which has the Tundra 5.7L getting better fuel economy than the Silverado's 5.3L
EPA estimates vs observed mpg
edmunds:
Tundra
14/18 14.4
Silverado
15/19 12.7
Truck Trend:
Tundra
14/18 8.55
Silverado
15/19 7.20
Truck Trend 2:
Tundra
14/18 14.9
Silverado
16/20 13.9
C&D:
Tundra
14/18 13
Silverado
15/19 12
Popular Mechanics:
Tundra
14/18 15.34
Silverado
15/19 15.4
and CR which has the Tundra 5.7L getting better fuel economy than the Silverado's 5.3L
Last edited by Mr. Jones; 09-28-07 at 03:38 PM.
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One thing is clear: the 5.7L is a very efficient engine for it's displacement and power. I predict that for 2008 the regular GM trucks and SUVs will see bigger EPA drops than Toyota's 2008 SUVs and trucks will (those equipped with the 5.7L V8). The Land Cruiser EPA estimates actually increased from 2007 to 2008, thanks to the improved efficiency of the 5.7L and the 6 speed auto.
I predict the 2008 Sequoia will see a slight drop in EPA ratings or it might stay the same (current ratings for 2007 are 15/18). Given that the '08 Sequoia is rumoured to have IRS, instead of a solid axle the 08 model might beat the 2007 model's EPA ratings. Tundra 4x4 for 2008 should drop to 13/18 as well, from 14/18 based on 2007 testing.
I predict the 2008 Sequoia will see a slight drop in EPA ratings or it might stay the same (current ratings for 2007 are 15/18). Given that the '08 Sequoia is rumoured to have IRS, instead of a solid axle the 08 model might beat the 2007 model's EPA ratings. Tundra 4x4 for 2008 should drop to 13/18 as well, from 14/18 based on 2007 testing.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 09-28-07 at 04:22 PM.
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One thing is clear: the 5.7L is a very efficient engine for it's displacement and power. I predict that for 2008 the regular GM trucks and SUVs will see bigger EPA drops than Toyota's 2008 SUVs and trucks will (those equipped with the 5.7L V8). The Land Cruiser EPA estimates actually increased from 2007 to 2008, thanks to the improved efficiency of the 5.7L and the 6 speed auto.
I predict the 2008 Sequoia will see a slight drop in EPA ratings or it might stay the same (current ratings for 2007 are 15/18). Given that the '08 Sequoia is rumoured to have IRS, instead of a solid axle the 08 model might beat the 2007 model's EPA ratings. Tundra 4x4 for 2008 should drop to 13/18 as well, from 14/18 based on 2007 testing.
I predict the 2008 Sequoia will see a slight drop in EPA ratings or it might stay the same (current ratings for 2007 are 15/18). Given that the '08 Sequoia is rumoured to have IRS, instead of a solid axle the 08 model might beat the 2007 model's EPA ratings. Tundra 4x4 for 2008 should drop to 13/18 as well, from 14/18 based on 2007 testing.
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